Talk:Malleable grey brooch

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What do people think about doing a bit of reformatting for the list of possible brooches? Since there's a clear "template" for the descriptions, we could just show that and then have lists of the possible shapes and materials. It's looking like there could be a large number of possibilities, so that might be more convenient... both for reading and editing.

--Ilde (talk) 18:05, 16 March 2023 (EDT)

I did an initial reformat, but I wonder if the information might be better reflected in tables?

Tempo (talk) 21:03, 16 March 2023 (EDT)

Yes a table withe all variations would be most appropriate since only small parts change.

--Frazyl (talk) 22:31, 16 March 2023 (EDT)

How about something like this for each deity? Edit: eh might as well do them all. I just don't want to do a major reformat on an active page without discussion. How's all this look?


Known designs:

  • cumulonimbus cloud
  • slender maiden
  • tranquil pool

Known materials:

  • delicate snowflakes
  • insubstantial haze
  • tiny raindrops


Known designs:

  • comforting blanket
  • comfy pillow
  • cuddly teddy bear

Known materials:

  • cotton wool
  • goose down


Known designs:

  • lapel pin

Known materials:

  • delicate satin


Known designs:

  • balanced seesaw
  • twisting maze

Known materials:

  • gleaming obsidian
  • grey slate


Known designs:

  • coy carp
  • curious octopus
  • grinning shark

Known materials:

  • fishing line
  • slimy seaweed
  • tiny, writhing tentacles


Known designs:

  • curious octopus

Known materials:

  • tiny, writhing tentacles


Known designs:

  • human heart
  • seven-handed demon

Known materials:

  • black leather
  • black steel

I feel like it's more readable than the table... especially if there turn out to be a large number of variations. And easier to skim and insert a new one in alphabetical order.

Either way, I think the "glow" section is unnecessary (I'll take it out in a minute)--those are just the standard holy item glows. All the holy symbols, holy amulets, and relics have those.

--Ilde (talk) 03:41, 17 March 2023 (EDT)

Is there any correlation between designs and materials ?

Before seeing the changes to this page I tried putting line breaks between options so that it's more readable. The unnumbered lists take up more vertical space because of the repeated headers.

I'm thinking the table is more compact. Maybe do a table with rows and columns switched ? Columns for each gods and rows with Gods, then "Known Designs", the various variations, then Known materials. But it can be a bit hard to edit.

Like this:

Pishe Gufnork Gapp Sandelfon Fish Hat Sek
Known Designs
cumulonimbus cloud comforting blanket delicate satin balanced seesaw coy carp curious octopus human heart
slender maiden comfy pillow twisting maze curious octopus seven-handed demon
tranquil pool cuddly teddy bear grinning shark
Known Materials
delicate snowflakes cotton wool lapel pin gleaming obsidian slimy seaweed, fishing line tiny, writhing tentacles black leather
insubstantial haze goose down grey slate tiny, writhing tentacles black steel
tiny raindrops
Pishe Gufnork Gapp Sandelfon Fish Hat Sek

But it breaks sorting.

--Frazyl (talk) 19:41, 17 March 2023 (EDT)

I think it would be too hard to edit--in a few ways. First, it's too easy to accidentally put a design/material under the wrong deity--they don't line up, so you have to count. Second, you can't see at a glance which row you should put it in; you have to look at all of them and see what the last row was with an entry for that deity. And, third, you can't keep them in alphabetical order unless you want to move EVERY entry for that deity after it. Admittedly alphabetical order isn't strictly necessary, but I think it's nice to do--makes it easier to quickly scan a list and see if your "new" addition is already there. If it's not ordered, you have to read the whole list. Of course that's trivial when there are only three items, but we don't know how many there are.

(Also, my third point would be irrelevant if we made them sortable tables. But, I don't think sortable tables are a good format for items that are unrelated to each other... i.e. the first row is "cumulonimbus cloud ||comforting blanket ||delicate satin ||balanced seesaw ||coy carp ||curious octopus ||human heart" and THOSE things are unrelated, if you see what I mean.)

Tentatively, there doesn't seem to be a correlation between design and materials... there have examples with different materials and the same design, and vice versa.

It does take up more space to have them as lists, but it's only twelve extra lines. It looks a bit boring, but it is easy to edit.

I think the table currently on the main page--i.e. one row per deity, and each box has a list--looks decent. It was a little annoying to edit, though, as I just found out: you had to add extra line breaks between list items and it's not quite intuitive. So, I changed it to bullet lists--no extra line breaks needed in that case. Also added comments so it's more immediately obvious which list is materials and which is designs. (Gapp had them switched, whoops.) How's that look?

--Ilde (talk) 22:24, 17 March 2023 (EDT)

Yes thanks I think it looks great with lists in the table, easy to read and edit with the comments and it stands out more than just lists. I added the headers at the bottom too since it's getting longer.

--Frazyl (talk) 23:40, 17 March 2023 (EDT)

I think we're good, then! Do we still want the list of full description examples at all?

--Ilde (talk) 00:58, 18 March 2023 (EDT)

I think it's fine to keep examples to make sure there's no links between materials and designs. If anyone cared greatly we could keep just one example on the page and put the others in the research tab.

--Frazyl (talk) 20:38, 19 March 2023 (EDT)

After looking at and adding a couple of brooches that Knero consecrated, it appears that Hat priests can probably end up with pretty much any design or material from any of the deities in addition to their own.

Tempo (talk) 19:18, 20 March 2023 (EDT)

Mmmm. If this is the case might want to replace designs and materials from other gods with a line saying it can be any of them. Do they have their own design ? For materials I guess "vulture feathers", "smooth sandstone" could be Sandelfon.

--Frazyl (talk) 18:42, 21 March 2023 (EDT)

Hat designs and materials from other gods seem to only be so far reported from Sek & Fish, any sign they can get some from the other gods? --Frazyl (talk) 22:45, 26 March 2023 (EDT)