Research:Magic.spells

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TM-ranges

As I noticed a while ago, there seems to be a relationship between the average bonus of all methods involved in a spell and the related ma.sp.* skill bonus regarding TM chances. All out of a sudden I started to TM ma.sp.offensive using Nargl'frob's Empyrean Spear after I TMed countless elemental methods involved before. So I thought there was a connection between the methods getting better and finally my ma.sp.offensive starting to TM as well.

It seems roughly to be (average methods bonus) + (spell size) + 20 or perhaps (average methods bonus) + 1.5 (spell size). I conclude from this, that the strength/potency of a spell is determined by the method stages of the spell and a final check against the related ma.sp.* checks if the spell potency is realized.

To check this simplicistic theory I ask all magic users to monitor their ma.sp.* TMs and then kindly check their involved methods bonuses and reached ma.sp.* bonus and then add those numbers in charts like I did mine below.

So what we are looking for:

> Saving... You suddenly feel more puissant in the use of offensive magic.

> Saving... You realise you are now more able to use offensive magic.

> Saving... You sense you have more strength than before in offensive magic.

Example given:

Xorphitus: Nargl'frob's Empyrean Spear

ma.sp.of 362 363 363 364 364 366 366 367 367 368 368 369 369 370 370 371 371 372 372 373 373 375
ma.me.el.wa 277 278 284 284 284 284 284 285 286 286 286 286 286 311 288 288 288 288 288 289 290 290
ma.me.el.ai 294 295 295 296 296 296 296 296 296 296 296 296 296 322 297 297 297 297 297 298 298 298
ma.me.el.fi 306 306 306 306 306 306 306 306 306 306 306 306 306 332 307 307 307 307 307 307 307 307
ma.me.el.ea 280 283 285 285 285 286 286 286 289 289 289 289 289 315 290 290 290 290 290 291 291 291
ma.me.ph.ev 323 323 323 323 323 323 323 330 323 323 323 323 323 323 323 323 330 323 323 330 330 330

Xorphitus: Journey of the Heavenly Storm Dragon

ma.sp.off 382 384 384 385 385 386 386 387 387 388 388 389 389 390 390 391 391 393 393 394 394 395 395
ma.me.el.wa 346 350 351 352 354 355 355 355 355 357 359 362 362 363 364 365 366 366 369 369 369 369 371
ma.me.el.ai 360 361 361 363 364 366 368 368 369 369 369 370 370 370 370 372 374 375 375 375 375 375 377
ma.me.el.ea 339 341 342 344 345 346 346 346 346 346 348 353 354 355 356 357 360 360 360 360 360 360 362
ma.me.el.fi 362 362 362 363 363 363 363 363 363 363 364 365 365 366 366 368 369 370 371 371 371 371 372
ma.me.me.chan 442 442 442 442 443 443 443 443 443 443 443 444 444 446 446 446 457 465 465 465 471 471 471
cont.
ma.sp.off 396 396 397 397 398 398 399 399 400 400 402 402 403 403 404 404 405 405 406 406 407 407 408
ma.me.el.wa 372 372 374 377 377 377 378 379 381 381 373 382 382 382 382 382 382 382 383 385 385 385 387
ma.me.el.ai 377 377 377 378 378 378 379 381 382 382 373 382 382 383 383 383 384 385 387 387 387 388 388
ma.me.el.ea 362 363 363 364 364 364 365 368 370 370 363 374 375 375 375 377 377 377 377 377 377 377 378
ma.me.el.fi 372 373 373 373 373 373 377 377 379 379 371 380 380 380 381 382 383 383 384 385 385 385 385
ma.me.me.chann 473 473 478 480 480 480 481 481 485 485 485 485 485 485 485 497 497 497 497 497 497 497 499
cont.
ma.sp.off 408 409 409 411 411 412 412 413 413 414 414 415 415 416 416 417 417 418 418 420 420 421 421
ma.me.el.wa 388 388 388 388 388 388 388 388 392 393 393 393 396 396 377 397 398 398 398 398 400 402 402
ma.me.el.ai 389 390 390 390 390 390 390 390 392 392 392 392 394 394 375 394 396 397 397 397 398 398 398
ma.me.el.ea 378 378 378 378 378 378 379 379 382 383 383 384 387 387 367 387 388 388 389 389 392 392 392
ma.me.el.fi 385 385 385 387 387 387 387 388 389 389 389 389 389 390 371 390 391 391 391 391 396 396 396
ma.me.me.chann 499 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503
cont.
ma.sp.off 422 422 423 423 424 424 425 425 426 426 427 427 429 429 430 430 431 431 432 432 433 433 434
ma.me.el.wa 402 405 405 405 406 406 406 406 406 407 407 408 408 408 408 410 410 410 411 411 392 414 414
ma.me.el.ai 399 401 401 401 401 401 402 402 402 402 403 406 406 406 407 408 408 408 408 408 389 410 411
ma.me.el.ea 392 393 394 394 396 396 396 396 396 397 397 397 397 397 398 399 399 399 400 400 380 401 402
ma.me.el.fi 396 397 397 397 399 399 399 399 399 401 401 401 401 401 402 403 403 405 406 406 387 407 409
ma.me.me.chann 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503
cont.
ma.sp.off 434 435 435 436 436 438 438 439 433 440 440 441 441 442 442 443 443 444
ma.me.el.wa 414 414 414 415 415 394 415 415 416 416 417 417 418 419 410 423 423 389
ma.me.el.ai 412 412 414 414 415 395 417 417 418 418 418 418 418 419 410 420 420 387
ma.me.el.ea 402 403 403 405 405 384 406 406 408 409 409 409 411 412 406 417 417 384
ma.me.el.fi 410 410 411 411 411 393 414 414 415 415 415 416 417 417 408 418 418 385
ma.me.me.chann 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503

Xorphitus: Stacklady's Morphic Resonator

ma.sp.off 375
ma.me.me.ch 403
ma.me.ph.ev 330
ma.me.ph.en 343

Xorphitus: Wonker's Wicked Wobble

ma.sp.off 376 376 377 377 378 378 379 379 380
cr.sm.go 354 356 356 357 358 358 359 365 366
ma.me.ph.bi 328 329 331 331 334 334 336 341 341
ma.it.he.ro 304 305 305 305 308 308 308 309 310
ma.me.ph.en 336 336 337 337 337 337 337 337 337

Xorphitus: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 326 326 323
ma.me.ph.en 343 343 336
ma.me.ph.ev 330 330 323
ma.me.ph.bi 333 333 326
ma.me.ph.da 262 263 258
ma.me.sp.ba 235 238 239

Xorphitus: Patient Taming of the Quantum Weather Butterfly

ma.sp.misc 323 324 324 325 325 326 326 327 327 328 328 329 329 330
ma.me.el.wa 290 290 290 290 290 290 290 290 290 290 290 290 290 290
ma.me.el.ea 293 293 294 294 296 296 296 296 297 298 300 301 301 301
ma.me.el.ai 298 299 302 302 310 310 311 312 313 319 321 321 322 324
ma.me.el.fi 307 307 310 311 314 314 315 315 316 318 319 320 321 323
ma.me.ph.bi 327 327 332 334 343 343 344 345 346 348 354 354 354 356

Brunswick: Nargl'frob's Empyrean Spear

ma.sp.off 330
ma.me.el.ea 257
ma.me.el.ai 283
ma.me.el.fi 298
ma.me.el.wa 255
ma.me.ph.ev 292

Elanor: Nargl'frob's Empyrean Spear

ma.sp.off 352
ma.me.el.ea 306
ma.me.el.ai 310
ma.me.el.fi 309
ma.me.el.wa 307
ma.me.ph.ev 330

Arkyn: Nargl'frob's Empyrean Spear

ma.sp.off 336
ma.me.el.ea 210
ma.me.el.ai 208
ma.me.el.fi 212
ma.me.el.wa 209
ma.me.ph.ev 261

Koss: Nargl'frob's Empyrean Spear

ma.sp.off 287
ma.me.el.ea 243
ma.me.el.ai 255
ma.me.el.fi 256
ma.me.el.wa 249
ma.me.ph.ev 249

Arkyn: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 323
ma.me.ph.en 279
ma.me.ph.ev 256
ma.me.ph.bi 286
ma.me.ph.da 245
ma.me.sp.ba 237

Surt: 1 single offensive TM to bonus 364 with DKDD (methods bonus unknown)

Mancow: 38 misc TMs to bonus 332 from JPCT (methods unknown)

Poncho: a few misc TMs with JPCT (methods unknown)

>Another Poncho TM! Poncho: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 325
ma.me.ph.en 297
ma.me.ph.ev 295
ma.me.ph.bi 310
ma.me.ph.da 297
ma.me.sp.ba 295

Mancow: Doctor Kelleflump's Deadly Demon

ma.sp.off 380 380
ma.me.ph.cu 345 345
ma.me.ph.da 347 347
ma.me.sp.ab 356 356
ma.me.sp.ba 357 357
ma.me.sp.su 335 345

anonymously: Effermhor's Hypersonic Assault

ma.sp.off 207
ma.me.ph.ev 173
ma.me.me.ch 209
ma.me.ph.bi 202
ma.me.ph.da 151
ma.me.me.ai 192

Leachim: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 285
ma.me.ph.en 293
ma.me.ph.ev 267
ma.me.ph.bi 267
ma.me.ph.da 264
ma.me.sp.ba 255

Anonymously: Doctor Kelleflump's Deadly Demon

ma.sp.off 359 359 360
ma.me.ph.cu 418 418 418
ma.me.ph.da 377 379 379
ma.me.sp.ab 343 343 343
ma.me.sp.ba 342 342 343
ma.me.sp.su 354 354 354

Calamity: Pragi's Fiery Gaze

ma.sp.off 237
ma.me.ph.ev 211
ma.me.me.ch 240
ma.me.ph.en 222
ma.me.me.an 228
ma.me.el.fi 190

Sorcerer: Pragi's Fiery Gaze

ma.sp.off 253
ma.me.ph.ev 223
ma.me.me.ch 220
ma.me.ph.en 229
ma.me.me.an 213
ma.me.el.fi 221

Anonymously: Professor Flambardie's Grim Amulet

ma.sp.misc 332
ma.it.wo.am 201
ma.me.el.wa 312
ma.it.he.wa 252
ma.me.sp.su 354
ma.me.ph.bi 343

Merllend: Collatrap's Instant Pickling Stick

ma.sp.misc 105 129
ma.me.sp.co 79 100
ma.me.ph.ev 134 148
ma.it.he.wa 79 105
ma.me.ph.da 111 113

Merllend: Master Woddeley's Luminescent Companion

ma.sp.misc 107 118
ma.me.ph.ev 134 142
ma.me.me.ch 134 139
ma.me.me.an 74 74

Merllend: Sorklin's Field of Protection

ma.sp.def 123
ma.me.ph.ev 134
ma.me.el.ai 116
ma.me.me.ch 134

Merllend: Friddlefrod's Hydratic Extrusion

ma.sp.misc 116 132
ma.me.el.wa 107 107
ma.me.ph.ev 139 148
ma.me.el.wa 107 107

Robgea: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 315
ma.me.ph.en 315
ma.me.ph.ev 315
ma.me.ph.bi 315
ma.me.ph.da 228
ma.me.sp.ba 227

Aiur: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 314
ma.me.ph.en 290
ma.me.ph.ev 316
ma.me.ph.bi 308
ma.me.ph.da 259
ma.me.sp.ba 253

anonymously: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 332 333
ma.me.ph.en 350 350
ma.me.ph.ev 332 332
ma.me.ph.bi 343 343
ma.me.ph.da 379 380
ma.me.sp.ba 343 343

Kripsi: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 333
ma.me.ph.en 300
ma.me.ph.ev 352
ma.me.ph.bi 350
ma.me.ph.da 272
ma.me.sp.ba 273

Sutowato: Nargl'frob's Empyrean Spear

ma.sp.off 347 347 348
ma.me.el.ea 208 208 208
ma.me.el.ai 244 244 244
ma.me.el.fi 276 276 276
ma.me.el.wa 210 210 210
ma.me.ph.ev 258 258 258

Camelion: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 321 321 322 322 323 325 326 326
ma.me.ph.en 308 308 309 309 309 309 309 309
ma.me.ph.ev 271 271 272 273 273 273 273 273
ma.me.ph.bi 292 292 292 292 292 292 293 293
ma.me.ph.da 268 268 269 272 272 272 272 272
ma.me.sp.ba 267 267 268 272 272 272 274 275

Traven: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 230
ma.me.ph.en 237
ma.me.ph.ev 226
ma.me.ph.bi 256
ma.me.ph.da 216
ma.me.sp.ba 181

Traven: Grisald's Reanimated Guardian

ma.sp.def 244
ma.me.sp.su 226
ma.me.ph.bi 256
ma.me.me.an 282
ma.me.ph.he 335

LawksAlt: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 324
ma.me.ph.en 245
ma.me.ph.ev 296
ma.me.ph.bi 311
ma.me.ph.da 238
ma.me.sp.ba 247

Alternatively this first theory might be falsified by contributed data as well. Then maybe there are fixed TM ranges for all spells. And it is still of interest to determine said ranges, so the contributed data is not wasted.

--Xorphitus 21:59, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


Thalic:Wonker's Wicked Wobble

Spell is cast while wearing a bronze helm, so bonuses are listed statted. Second and third TMs were with -1 DEX because of burden.

ma.sp.of 361 362 363 364
cr.sm.go 357 358 363 364
ma.me.ph.bi 334 335 335 335
ma.it.he.ro 280 281 288 289
ma.me.ph.en 336 328 328 328

--Thalic 10:03, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Galina: Collatrap's Instant Pickling Stick

ma.sp.mi 180
ma.me.sp.co 85
ma.me.ph.ev 183
ma.it.he.wa 82
ma.me.ph.da 183

Master Woddeley's Luminescent Companion

ma.sp.mi 181
ma.me.ph.ev 185
ma.me.me.ch 140
ma.me.me.an 137

Positrix: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 300
ma.me.ph.en 250
ma.me.ph.ev 297
ma.me.ph.bi 302
ma.me.ph.da 263
ma.me.sp.ba 253

--User positrix JPCT tmd ma.sp.misc from 285 to 286 with methods of: enchanting.... 201 250 evoking....... 290 297 binding....... 300 302 dancing....... 225 263 banishing..... 181 253

Steveonius: Grisald's Chilly Touch

ma.sp.misc 74 79 89 94
ma.me.ph.he 79 79 79 79
ma.me.sp.su 52 52 52 52

Steveonius: Eringyas' Surprising Bouquet

ma.sp.misc 84
ma.me.me.ch 113
ma.me.ph.ev 118
ma.me.me.ch 58

Steveonius: Torqvald's Many Colours

ma.sp.misc 100 105 116 127
ma.me.el.air 170 179 179 179
ma.me.me.chan 121 123 139 142
ma.me.me.char 68 74 100 111

Steveonius: Independent Recurring Vocaliser

ma.sp.misc 107 121
ma.me.me.ch 123 139
ma.me.ph.ev 121 142
ma.me.ph.bi 100 118

Steveonius: Sorklin's Field of Protection

ma.sp.def 84
ma.me.el.ai 169
ma.me.ph.ev 118
ma.me.me.ch 113

Steveonius: Malich's Penetrating Ocular Lance

ma.sp.off 74 107 111 115 121
ma.me.me.ch 121 145

Steceonius: Collatrap's Instant Pickling Stick

ma.sp.misc 111 113 123 132
ma.me.sp.co 113 158 161 161
ma.me.ph.ev 127 127 142 142
ma.it.he.wa 68 74 84 84
ma.me.ph.da 164 164 169 169


Sij: Torqvald's Many Colours

ma.sp.misc 113
ma.me.el.ai 95
ma.me.me.chan 107
ma.me.me.char 74

Sij: Independent Recurring Vocaliser

ma.sp.misc 116
ma.me.me.chan 111
ma.me.ph.bi 148
ma.me.ph.ev 148

Sij: Sorklin's Field of Protection

ma.sp.defense 123
ma.me.ph.ev 148
ma.me.el.ai 100
ma.me.me.chan 113

Sij: Master Woddeley's Luminescent Companion

ma.sp.misc 134 137 148 158 163 164 165 167 172 174 175 178 179 181 181 182 183 184 188
ma.me.ph.ev 150 153 187 187 187 187 188 188 188 188 201 213 213 213 214 214 214 214 243
ma.me.me.chan 132 132 170 170 171 172 177 177 182 183 187 199 213 213 213 214 214 214 269
ma.me.me.an 127 127 169 170 175 177 179 179 181 181 185 187 188 189 189 189 191 191 240

Sij: Collatrap's Instant Pickling Stick

ma.sp.misc 139 142 176 187 187 188 189 190 190 191 191
ma.me.sp.co 79 84 116 132 132 151 154 157 163 163 163
ma.me.ph.ev 155 179 201 235 235 243 243 243 243 243 243
ma.it.he.wa 84 84 169 176 177 180 182 183 184 185 185
ma.me.ph.da 145 169 172 176 176  ?  ?  ? 180 180 180

Sij: Memories of a Vicious Chicken

ma.sp.off 170
ma.me.ph.he 79
ma.me.sp.su 79
ma.me.ph.da 169


Sij: Brassica Oleracea Ambulata

ma.sp.misc 145 160 161 166 168 171 173 177 179 182 183 184 185 185
ma.me.ph.ev 179 187 187 188 188 188 188 201 213 214 214 214 214 214
ma.me.me.chan 170 171 171 177 182 182 182 199 199 213 214 214 214 214
ma.me.me.an 169 172 173 179 179 179 181 186 188 189 190 191 191 191

Sij: Friddlefrod's Hydratic Extrusion

ma.sp.misc 169
ma.me.el.wa 118
ma.me.ph.ev 188
ma.me.el.wa 118

Sij: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 223 224 226 229 230
ma.me.ph.en 205 207 206 209 210
ma.me.ph.ev 244 244 242 244 250
ma.me.ph.bi 255 255 253 255 265
ma.me.ph.da 190 190 188 190 190
ma.me.sp.ba 198 199 198 199 199

(the lower methods on the 226 column was due to stat penalties)

Mischief: Journey of the Heavenly Storm Dragon

ma.sp.off 433
ma.me.el.ea 376
ma.me.el.ai 374
ma.me.el.fi 374
ma.me.el.wa 374
ma.me.me.chan 441


Historical board messages regarding the changes to magic spells and their power


Note #0 by Gruper posted at Sun Sep 12 09:43:00 1999 Title: 'Change to Spell Power'

Bingles,

There has been whining about the uselessness of ma.methods for as long as I can remember. This is what you asked for.

magic.spells.* no longer influences the power of spells. It is now determined by your magic.methods.* bonuses. If you have low ma.me.* and high ma.sp.*, your spells won't be as powerful as you are used to.

We will tweak things a wee bit after we have seen which effects this has.

Gruper

-- Note #0 by Griffin posted at Sun Sep 12 11:49:59 1999 Title: 'Re:#2 Change to Spell Power'

On Sun Sep 12 11:24:43 1999, Erin wrote: > On Sun Sep 12 09:43:00 1999, Gruper wrote: > > Bingles, > > > > There has been whining about the uselessness of ma.methods > > for as long as I can remember. This is what you asked for. > > I never asked for this. Consider this as a whine on how useless > ma.sp.* skills are now.

I rather like this! I expect people to specialise in a few spells and hopefully this will lead to more variety in spell use. I can imagine that it is a bit frustrating for a while for those who have played on the numbers a lot to advance ma.sp. skills extremely high, but in the long run, I think this will mean a major enrichment of playing with magic. I think it also is more logical to do it this way: the better you are at the relevant skills, the better you cast a spell. Yes, very nice.

So I suppose ma.sp.* is now only relevant for spell speed? Our abilities to do stuff will now most probably have changed quite a bit. I suppose we should try to get some idea of how these changes have affected us in order to get this great innovation fine-tuned? My guess is that a bunch of spells will have become less effective now. Let's try to get a good idea the situation before we start complaining? (We'll be able to complain much more effectively once we know exactly what we are up against. ;-) )

Apart from the work on spell speed and now ma.sp.me, I have noticed that a lot of smaller and bigger bugs have been fixed lately. Thanks for investing some time in our guild. Personally, I really appreciate this fresh wind through the musty corridors of Unseen University.

-- Cheers Griffin

Note #0 by Gruper posted at Sun Sep 12 14:17:11 1999 Title: 'Re:#2 Change to Spell Power'

> No offence, but this seems like an overly emotional reaction. > There is probably a lot of people who are going to be awfully > upset that the work they put into raising their ma.sp.* bonuses has > been thrown away in what could seem like a fit of pique.

Sorry, "this is what you asked for" was a bit harshly worded; this change wasn't made to hurt people. We'll go on tweaking things until we reach a solution that seems at least hafway sane. We are now back somewhere between pre change and nastiest Post Change(tm) weights for the different skills.

Gruper

Note #0 by Gruper posted at Sun Sep 12 18:19:05 1999 Title: 'Re:#1 Change in the conception of magic (long)'

Bingles,

I'll just say it again, for luck: we'll tweak stuff until we have reached a nice solution; do not run - we are your friends. Give it a few days.

> This change makes most wizards casting abilities > more or less equal.

Because wizards have the same ma.methods bonuses but vastly different ma.spells? I don't know if this is true or not, but it sounds rather strange. Concerning the "Discworld flavour of magic", i.e. that ma.sp determining power should be more true to the spirit of Discworld... I'll just say that I disagree. Please read Woddeley's Occult Primer for more information about the different skills.

Your most valid point, as I see it, is that I have suddenly turned your world upside down by changing the rules of the game. You have "wasted" zillions of xp on skills that are now a lot less useful than they used to be. This wasn't a nice thing to do. (This is my main reason for not removing casting from scrolls by non-wizards, by the way.)

There has been many changes the last week. When we see the effect of these changes we can start tweaking the individual spells. In the end I hope almost everyone will be happy.

Oh - rants along the lines of "this sux" are bad, complaints like "I used to be able to get thirteen fire bunnies, but now I only manage four" are good. Same thing with casting times: "They're all too slow!" is bad, "TPA now takes 32 seconds, more than twice as long as it used to take with my ma.sp.de at X. This makes it had to use in combat" is good. Gruper -- Troupe of Jugglers, Man Flying Kite, Frowning Emperor


Note #0 by Gruper posted at Fri Sep 17 15:03:43 1999 Title: 'Grodor och andra djur'

[cc witches]

Bingles,

I haven't seen any (valid and convincing) complaints about things that could be considered "my fault", so the tweaking of spell power/efficiency/wotever is over now.

We'll keep looking at casting times for a while. Input is still appreciated.

Gruper --