Research:Experience points

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Warning.png WARNING: This page contains information about idlechasing, which now returns less xp and is no longer possible by sharing experience in a group due to changes[1] to the game.

Since the change all commands that give xp typically return 20 times (or less) the cost in GP and command xp is no longer shared.
The creators have proposed missions as a way to gain experience without combat.

Personal idlechasing that gives 20 times the gp cost is still possible and these pages still contain interesting information on using commands, keeping in mind the differences outlined above.

How command xp is shared

More details to follow once I do more tests and can come to some more specific conclusions. Prelimary research, however, suggests several things:

  • That the proportion of xp you share when a groupmate does commands is generally equal to your guild level divided by their guild level, or half, whichever is smaller--so that two people of similar guild level will each get half of the other's command xp,
  • that this may not hold true for the lower-level person when there's a large difference in guild level,
  • that not all commands share xp equally, and
  • that guild doesn't matter.

Methods and notes

In these tests, we would group, then one of us would perform various commands (recording the amount of xp before and after) while the groupmate would record the amount of xp they gained (either by doing using brief before and afterwards, or by spamming score brief and using the two on either side of the performer's command (this was to reduce the impact of heartbeat xp)).

On this page, xp being "shared evenly" or "shared equally" means that the two group members get about half of each other's command xp, either for a particular command (no matter which one of them does it) or overall.

Current questions:

  • Does the difficulty of the command and/or the different characters' bonuses come into play? If so, this would explain why "search", by the higher-guild-level character, gives half xp to the lower-guild-level character, while rituals and other commands usually don't. It would also explain why there is a difference between different commands.
  • Do characters with the same guild level share command xp equally (ie, each gets half of the other's) no matter what?
  • Does the higher-level character get half of the other's command xp regardless of bonuses in specific skills?
  • What, if anything, changes when more than two people are grouped? Does command xp get split up amongst group members?
  • What about death/burial xp? Does it follow the same rules as command xp?
  • Is shared xp predictable or is there a significant random factor?

Data so far

Participants

(Ilde, Valanthe, Roywyn, and Tolca are my own alts, while Chare, Zaz, and Seima are various kind people who helped with all this.)

  • Ilde: Guild level 260 in Priests at time of group
  • Chare: Guild level 15 in Assassins at time of group
  • Valanthe: Guild level 46 in Warriors at time of group
  • Zaz: Guild level 46 in Priests at time of group
  • Roywyn: Guild level 130 in Priests at time of group
  • Tolca: Guild level 130 in Wizards at time of group
  • Seima: Guild level 325 in Priests at time of group

Groups

Group #1: Ilde and Chare

Notes:

  • Xp gained should probably usually be 3-9 less than reported, since heartbeat xp probably got in there a bit.
  • Slip and throw may be anomalies, since they didn't give the amount of xp expected to the performer (but did give the amount expected to the groupmate (me)). I think there might have been something off with the first unhide, too. I'd like to redo those.

[Scouter's note: Testing peek and slip for myself, I found they took 10 gp and gave 150 xp. I'd expect for Chare to get either 300 or 150 xp, depending whether they're classified as guild command or not. If slip gives 300 xp, and peek 150 xp, there seem to be no anomalies there.]

  • The harp used was the dragon harp. The whistle used was the wooden whistle (the one made of rowan wood). The knife used was a rubber knife (a toy), and it was thrown at a cat (we both failed). The faith rod held (by both of us) was an orange cane with Feedback and Endless Halls imbued in it. Divine Hand was the ritual bestowed and then scoured. The map used was the Discworld map (unenchanted and undeluded), and Ankh-Morpork was located on it.
  • The "% gained" columns refer to the % gained by the person not performing the command.
  • Each "xp gained" value represents only one test. There may be some random factor we're not accounting for.

Highlights:

  • Chare practically always got less xp from me than I got from her with the same commands--even when her relevant skill was similar.
  • Chare shared the most xp from strum harp, perform solo on harp, and search. Oddly, serenade (with harp) wasn't one of the better commands, despite being similar difficulty to performing a solo.
  • Chare actually shared less xp when the unhiding and peeking was performed outside, despite her co.st.outside being better than mine (and the reverse being true for co.st.inside).
  • Chare shared the least xp from (starting with the lowest): bestow, scour, pray, throw, sparkling shelter, ventisepelate, locate on map, unhide, study map, hold cane, and consecrate. It may be significant that Anon #1 shared more xp proportionally from consulting a map than studying or locating Ankh-Morpork on it, since consulting seems to be easier.
Command Chare's xp (performing) Ilde's xp  % gained Chare's xp Ilde's xp (performing)  % gained Skill(s) used Chare's bonus Ilde's bonus
Hide 306 156 51.0 57 159 35.8 co.hi.pe 111 182
Palm 30 159 18.9 co.ma.pal 100 108
Slip 400 153 38.3 42 159 26.4 co.ma.pas 100 122
Plant 300 153 51.0 33 153 21.6 co.ma.pas 100 122
Unhide (inside) 111 0 0 27 153 17.6 co.st.in 100 160
Peek (inside) 233 78 33.5 36 153 23.5 co.st.in 100 160
Unhide (outside) 18 153 11.8 co.st.ou 100 57
Peek (outside) 30 153 19.6 co.st.ou 100 57
Play harp 150 78 52.0 36 153 23.5 cr.mu.ins.str 21 172
Strum harp 140 78 55.7 80 153 52.3 cr.mu.ins.str 21 172
Serenade on harp 150 78 52.0 33 156 21.2 cr.mu.ins.str 21 172
Perform solo on harp 150 78 52.0 78 156 50.0 cr.mu.ins.str 21 172
Play harmonica 39 153 25.5 cr.mu.ins.wind 26 219
Blow whistle 150 81 54.0 33 153 21.6 cr.mu.ins.wind 26 219
hold cane (faith rod) 894 445 49.8 107 888 12.0 fa.it.ro 37 326
Bestow (on faith rod) 150 5724 2.6 fa.it.ro 37 326
Scour (from rod) 93 1503 6.2 fa.it.sc? 37 326
Sparkling Shelter 169 2088 8.1 fa.ri.de.se 37 316
Detect Alignment 399 198 49.6 68 411 16.5 fa.ri.mi.ta 37 345
Pray 435 220 50.6 255 4013 6.4 fa.ri.sp 37 330
Ventisepelate (rat) 125 1548 8.1 fa.ri.sp 37 330
Consecrate 192 1506 12.7 fa.ri.sp 37 330
Throw 200 228 114.0 36 453 7.9 fi.ra.thr 42 115
Search 237 118 49.8 103 228 45.2 none?
Study map 300 153 51.0 36 303 11.9 ot.di 0 191
Consult map 150 78 52.0 27 153 17.6 ot.di 0 191
Locate on map 300 156 52.0 33 306 10.8 ot.di 0 191
Group #2: Valanthe and Zaz

This was a short test. We were of equal guild level and different guilds. I'd advanced my fighting skills a bit and my faith skills not at all, while he'd advanced only his faith skills and left fighting at the 5-8 starting levels from Pumpkin Town.

First, I ran my entire idle alias (which consists of judge, vurdere, trip, shove, pierce, slice, stab, slash, feint, riposte, and warcry (first part only)). (I used a sheep shearer, and didn't kill him.) I got 9048 xp from the whole thing, while Zaz got 4578 shared xp from the whole thing (slightly more than 50%). Next, Zaz performed Minor Shield, getting 1320 xp from it while I got 658 shared xp (slightly less than 50%).

Conclusion: Between characters of equal level, xp seems to be shared evenly regardless of relative bonuses in the particular skills used.

Group #3: Roywyn and Zaz

This was another short test--only I did commands, while Zaz recorded the shared xp.

Command Roywyn's xp (performing) Zaz's xp  % gained
Study map 306 127 41.5
Play whistle 153 56 36.6
See Alignment 785 287 36.6
Sotto Voce 1569 570 36.3
Scour 1500 535 35.7
Consecrate 1503 535 35.6
Group #4: Tolca and Seima

Here, we mainly tested how much xp Tolca got from Seima's commands. It turned out to hover right around 40%. I think the differences are due to heartbeat xp (especially in the case of search and the spells, since those commands took several seconds to finish) and burial xp (in the case of ritual burial, since ritbury should give 1500 xp command xp without burial xp).

What's interesting is that Tolca's guild level is exactly 40% of Seima's. I now suspect that, in general, the formula for shared xp is:

(Guild level) / (Guild level of player performing the commands) = proportion of xp shared, up to 1/2.

Skills seem to have nothing to do with it, as Tolca only has five levels in covert and faith skills, and no levels in evaluating (the skill tree used for judge and vurdere).

Command Seima's xp (performing) Tolca's xp  % gained
Divine Guard 1725 687 39.8
Divine Guard 1725 690 40.0
Profound Darkness 1008 399 39.6
Creeping Doom 1287 512 39.8
Major Shield 1752 696 39.7
see consecration 735 288 39.2
Dust Devil 762 303 39.8
Blight 1095 432 39.5
Bestow (DH) 5403 2160 40.0
Scour 1503 600 39.9
consecrate 1503 600 39.9
Ritbury 1646 600 36.5
Pray 4463 1784 40.0
hide 159 60 37.7
unhide 153 63 41.2
slip 156 63 40.4
judge 378 149 39.4
vurdere 378 152 40.2
search 240 89 37.1
conceal 153 63 41.2
hold baton 963 384 39.9
consult map 153 63 41.2
study map 303 120 39.6
locate on map 303 120 39.6
palm 156 63 40.4
peek 153 60 39.2
portal, from scroll 1569 600 38.2
Brassica Oleracea Ambulata, from scroll 630 240 38.1

JPoCT costs 100 gp, making the expected xp return 1500, while BOA costs 40 gp, making the expected xp return 600. Search takes 15 gp, with an expected return of 225. Looking at Tolca's xp over Seima's expected xp (with the extra attributed to heartbeat xp) for these brings the % much closer to 40.

We also tried a few with Tolca doing the commands:

Command Tolca's xp (performing) Seima's xp  % gained
Scribe (350 gp) 10506 5253 50.0
Octograve 1506 753 50.0
Union of the Phoenix and Divine Dragon 771 378 49.0

This was exactly as expected. UPDD costs 50 gp, so should return 750 xp (the rest of the xp probably being due to heartbeat xp--a casting time of 7 seconds seems fairly reasonable with Tolca's skills), making shared xp of 378 almost exactly 50%. (It's probably actually 375, with the other 3 being from heartbeat xp.)

Command repetition and reduced command xp

Information on the number of commands in an alias versus the amount of time it takes before you can get full xp from the commands goes here.

Commands vs repetition time

Number of commands Time before repetition (seconds)
1 more than 600 (10 minutes)
2  ??
3 more than 900 (15 minutes)
4  ??
5 240-300 (4-5 minutes)
6  ??
7 225-240
8 210-240
9 210-240
10  ??
11 0?

The rate seems to go down with the number of repetitions if you don't leave enough time between iterations--sometimes you get full xp the first and second times you go through the alias, but not after that--so it's necessary to go through it at least a few times in a row to be sure.

Supporting research

One command

Pray (as a priest) normally gives 10x. Rates given are all after the initial 10x pray.

  • Waiting two minutes (with variation of less than four seconds in either direction) between prays several times in a row gave varying rates between ~3.4x and ~1.36x (xp/gp: 784/236, 685/240, 815/244, 534/240, 354/240, 322/236).
  • Waiting four minutes between prays (and using my max of 417 gp) gave 10x, then 6.67x, then 5x, then 2.85x.
  • Waiting six minutes between prays (and using max-with-beads of 425 gp) gave 10x, then 10x, then 6.67x, then 5x, then 2.85x.
  • Waiting eight minutes gave 10x, then 10x, then 6.67x, then 3.33
  • Waiting either ten minutes or ten and a half minutes (may have misdone it) gave 10x, then 10x, then 6.67x, then 5x, then 4x, then 3.33x.

Consecrate normally gives 30x.

  • Waiting ten minutes gave 30x, then 30x, then 20x, then 10x

Rituals normally give 15x.

  • Waiting four minutes between performs (of major shield (108 gp since ritual assistance was on)) gave 15x, then 10x, then 5x, then 5.95x, then 5.01x.
  • Waiting five minutes between performs (of agoraphobia (122 gp since ritual assistance was on) gave 15x, then 15x, then 10x, then 5x.

Three commands

With an alias of score;play pipe;perform solo on pipe;serenade cat on pipe, for a total of 30 gp(all 15x commands):

  • Waiting four minutes gave 15x, then 10x, then 6.67x, then 7.5x, then 7.5x.
  • Waiting six minutes gave 15x, then 15x, then 10x, then 10x.
  • Waiting eight minutes gave 15x, then 15x, then 10x, then 10x, then 10x.
  • Waiting ten minutes gave 15x, then 15x, then 10x, then 10x.
  • Waiting fifteen minutes gave 15x, then 15x, then 10x... probably not much point in continuing. Wow.

Five commands

With an alias of score;slip beads from hands;palm beads to hands;study map;consult map;locate ankh-morpork on map;score (all 15x commands) for a total of 70 gp:

  • Waiting four minutes between gave 15x, then 10, then 9.84x, then 10.1x, then 9.99x, then 10x, then 10x, then 10x, then 10x. Maybe it stabilizes at this point.
  • Waiting five minutes between gave 15x, then 14.97x, then 15x, then 15x, then 14.72x, then 15x, then 14.97x, then 15x. Probably just at or above the minimum.
  • Waiting six minutes between gave 15x, then 15x, then 15x, then 15x, then 15x... this seems to be at or above the minimum.

Seven commands

With an alias of score;strum harp;play harp;perform solo on harp;serenade cat on harp;study map;consult map;locate ankh-morpork on map;score (all 15x commands), for a total of 90 gp:

  • Waiting three minutes, 45 seconds between gave 13.43x, then 13.43x, then 13.41x, then 13.25x, then 13.41x, then 13.25x. Probably just barely under the minimum.
  • Waiting four minutes between gave 15x, then 15x, then 15x, then 15x, then 14.77x, then 15x, then 15x. This looks to be above the minimum, although possibly just barely.

Eight commands

Same alias as for seven, only with hide added to the beginning for 100 gp total, still with only 15x commands.

  • Waiting three minutes between gave 10.09x, then 9.83x, then 10.09x, then 10x, then 10.1x, then 9.89x.
  • Waiting three and a half minutes between gave 12x, then 11.99x, then 12x, then 11.99x, then 12.12x, then 11.8x, then 12.12x, then 11.81x.
  • Waiting four minutes between gave 15x, then 15x, then 15x, then 14.71x, then 15x, then 14.98x. Seems to be right around the minimum wait.

Nine commands

Same alias as for eight, only with meditate upon obsecration added to the end for 200 gp total, still with only 15x commands.

  • Waiting three minutes between gave 10x, then 10x.
  • Waiting three and a half minutes between gave 12.15x, then 11.65x, then 12.3x.
  • Waiting four minutes between gave 15x, then 15x.

Eleven commands

General wisdom is that there's no time limit for repeating an alias with eleven or more commands.


Experience rates

This is just a fun bit of research i've done, since the subject cropped up a few times in idle conversation. (Hurr)

Solo Rates

These are the theoretical maximum XP rates you can achieve with each GP regen arrangement. This should only be taken as a rough guide, the rates here can never actually be achieved. The maximum a player can reach, given the nature of aliases and manual input, as probably about 5-10k per hour less than these numbers.

These are worked out for an alias/aliases that have an entirely 30x GP to XP conversion rate.

4 GP Regen

Heartbeats per hour 1,800 3,600 seconds in an hour, divided by 2 (The length of 1 heartbeat)
Guild Points used per hour 7,200 1,800 heartbeats times 4 GP per heartbeat
Command Experience Gained per hour 216,000 7,200 GP used times 30 for the conversion to XP
Total Experience Gained per hour 221,400 Plus 5,400 heartbeat experience.

3 GP Regen

Heartbeats per hour 1,800
Guild Points used per hour 5,400 1,800 heartbeats times 3 GP per heartbeat
Command Experience Gained per hour 162,000 5,400 GP used times 30 for the conversion to XP
Total Experience Gained per hour 167,400

2 GP Regen

Heartbeats per hour 1,800
Guild Points used per hour 3,600 1,800 heartbeats times 2 GP per heartbeat
Command Experience Gained per hour 108,000 3,600 GP used times 30 for the conversion to XP
Total Experience Gained per hour 113,400

Group Rates

Maximum group rates are even more theoretical than solo, unless you have a group of robot thieves. There is also a somewhat un-measurable amount of experience reduction starting at 600,000 xp/hr, which reduces XP further beyond that point.

4 GP Regen

Experience per hour (player) 221,400
Shared experience per hour (groupmates) 540,000 216,000 times 5 for each groupmate, divided by 2 for maximum shared XP
Total Experience Gained per hour 761,400 221,400 solo XP plus 540,000 shared XP

3 GP Regen

Experience per hour (player) 167,400
Shared experience per hour (groupmates) 405,000 162,000 times 5 for each groupmate, divided by 2 for maximum shared XP
Total Experience Gained per hour 572,400 167,400 solo XP plus 405,000 shared XP

Kill xp as a proportion of bury xp

The idea here is to see if/make sure the kill xp you get really is (bury xp)*(npc's guild level)/(your guild level) when you're a higher level than the npc.

Here, I'm killing some witch npcs, as they have a visible indicator of guild level (warts), although it's approximate.

In order to avoid the complication of xp reduction, wimpy was at 0, xp rate was under 100k, and no minions were used.

Killer's GL NPC's GL range Kill XP Bury XP Predicted kill XP Within predictions?
123 110-119 2590 2817 2519-2725 yes
123 70-79 1450 2257 1284-1449 no, barely
123 140-149 3355 3355 3355 yes
123 100-109 2289 2707 2200-2398 yes
312 30-39 153 1516 145-189 yes
312 90-99 810 2679 772-850 yes
312 140-149 1582 3375 1514-1611 yes
312 220-229 3152 4406 3106-3233 yes
312 50-59 375 2324 372-439 yes
312 190-199 2575 4137 2519-2638 yes
312 170-179 2221 4047 2205-4047 yes
312 220-229 3493 4776 3367-3505 yes
312 190-199 2537 4058 2471-2588 yes
312 80-89 673 2583 662-736 yes
312 140-149 1622 3488 1565-1665 yes
312 160-169 1888 3653 1873-1978 yes
312 40-49 352 2320 297-364 yes

Based on this, it seems to work. Only one instance of kill xp was outside the expected range, and then only by 1 xp. It's possible that rounding, or heartbeat xp, was responsible.