- 1 How command xp is shared
- 2 Command repetition and reduced command xp
- 3 Experience rates
- 4 Kill xp as a proportion of bury xp
More details to follow once I do more tests and can come to some more specific conclusions. Prelimary research, however, suggests several things:
- That the proportion of xp you share when a groupmate does commands is generally equal to your guild level divided by their guild level, or half, whichever is smaller--so that two people of similar guild level will each get half of the other's command xp,
- that this may not hold true for the lower-level person when there's a large difference in guild level,
- that not all commands share xp equally, and
- that guild doesn't matter.
Methods and notes
In these tests, we would group, then one of us would perform various commands (recording the amount of xp before and after) while the groupmate would record the amount of xp they gained (either by doing using brief before and afterwards, or by spamming score brief and using the two on either side of the performer's command (this was to reduce the impact of heartbeat xp)).
On this page, xp being "shared evenly" or "shared equally" means that the two group members get about half of each other's command xp, either for a particular command (no matter which one of them does it) or overall.
- Does the difficulty of the command and/or the different characters' bonuses come into play? If so, this would explain why "search", by the higher-guild-level character, gives half xp to the lower-guild-level character, while rituals and other commands usually don't. It would also explain why there is a difference between different commands.
- Do characters with the same guild level share command xp equally (ie, each gets half of the other's) no matter what?
- Does the higher-level character get half of the other's command xp regardless of bonuses in specific skills?
- What, if anything, changes when more than two people are grouped? Does command xp get split up amongst group members?
- What about death/burial xp? Does it follow the same rules as command xp?
- Is shared xp predictable or is there a significant random factor?
Data so far
(Ilde, Valanthe, Roywyn, and Tolca are my own alts, while Chare, Zaz, and Seima are various kind people who helped with all this.)
- Ilde: Guild level 260 in Priests at time of group
- Chare: Guild level 15 in Assassins at time of group
- Valanthe: Guild level 46 in Warriors at time of group
- Zaz: Guild level 46 in Priests at time of group
- Roywyn: Guild level 130 in Priests at time of group
- Tolca: Guild level 130 in Wizards at time of group
- Seima: Guild level 325 in Priests at time of group
Group #1: Ilde and Chare
- Xp gained should probably usually be 3-9 less than reported, since heartbeat xp probably got in there a bit.
- Slip and throw may be anomalies, since they didn't give the amount of xp expected to the performer (but did give the amount expected to the groupmate (me)). I think there might have been something off with the first unhide, too. I'd like to redo those.
[Scouter's note: Testing peek and slip for myself, I found they took 10 gp and gave 150 xp. I'd expect for Chare to get either 300 or 150 xp, depending whether they're classified as guild command or not. If slip gives 300 xp, and peek 150 xp, there seem to be no anomalies there.]
- The harp used was the dragon harp. The whistle used was the wooden whistle (the one made of rowan wood). The knife used was a rubber knife (a toy), and it was thrown at a cat (we both failed). The faith rod held (by both of us) was an orange cane with Feedback and Endless Halls imbued in it. Divine Hand was the ritual bestowed and then scoured. The map used was the Discworld map (unenchanted and undeluded), and Ankh-Morpork was located on it.
- The "% gained" columns refer to the % gained by the person not performing the command.
- Each "xp gained" value represents only one test. There may be some random factor we're not accounting for.
- Chare practically always got less xp from me than I got from her with the same commands--even when her relevant skill was similar.
- Chare shared the most xp from strum harp, perform solo on harp, and search. Oddly, serenade (with harp) wasn't one of the better commands, despite being similar difficulty to performing a solo.
- Chare actually shared less xp when the unhiding and peeking was performed outside, despite her co.st.outside being better than mine (and the reverse being true for co.st.inside).
- Chare shared the least xp from (starting with the lowest): bestow, scour, pray, throw, sparkling shelter, ventisepelate, locate on map, unhide, study map, hold cane, and consecrate. It may be significant that Anon #1 shared more xp proportionally from consulting a map than studying or locating Ankh-Morpork on it, since consulting seems to be easier.
|Command||Chare's xp (performing)||Ilde's xp||% gained||Chare's xp||Ilde's xp (performing)||% gained||Skill(s) used||Chare's bonus||Ilde's bonus|
|Serenade on harp||150||78||52.0||33||156||21.2||cr.mu.ins.str||21||172|
|Perform solo on harp||150||78||52.0||78||156||50.0||cr.mu.ins.str||21||172|
|hold cane (faith rod)||894||445||49.8||107||888||12.0||fa.it.ro||37||326|
|Bestow (on faith rod)||150||5724||2.6||fa.it.ro||37||326|
|Scour (from rod)||93||1503||6.2||fa.it.sc?||37||326|
|Locate on map||300||156||52.0||33||306||10.8||ot.di||0||191|
Group #2: Valanthe and Zaz
This was a short test. We were of equal guild level and different guilds. I'd advanced my fighting skills a bit and my faith skills not at all, while he'd advanced only his faith skills and left fighting at the 5-8 starting levels from Pumpkin Town.
First, I ran my entire idle alias (which consists of judge, vurdere, trip, shove, pierce, slice, stab, slash, feint, riposte, and warcry (first part only)). (I used a sheep shearer, and didn't kill him.) I got 9048 xp from the whole thing, while Zaz got 4578 shared xp from the whole thing (slightly more than 50%). Next, Zaz performed Minor Shield, getting 1320 xp from it while I got 658 shared xp (slightly less than 50%).
Conclusion: Between characters of equal level, xp seems to be shared evenly regardless of relative bonuses in the particular skills used.
Group #3: Roywyn and Zaz
This was another short test--only I did commands, while Zaz recorded the shared xp.
|Command||Roywyn's xp (performing)||Zaz's xp||% gained|
Group #4: Tolca and Seima
Here, we mainly tested how much xp Tolca got from Seima's commands. It turned out to hover right around 40%. I think the differences are due to heartbeat xp (especially in the case of search and the spells, since those commands took several seconds to finish) and burial xp (in the case of ritual burial, since ritbury should give 1500 xp command xp without burial xp).
What's interesting is that Tolca's guild level is exactly 40% of Seima's. I now suspect that, in general, the formula for shared xp is:
(Guild level) / (Guild level of player performing the commands) = proportion of xp shared, up to 1/2.
Skills seem to have nothing to do with it, as Tolca only has five levels in covert and faith skills, and no levels in evaluating (the skill tree used for judge and vurdere).
|Command||Seima's xp (performing)||Tolca's xp||% gained|
|locate on map||303||120||39.6|
|portal, from scroll||1569||600||38.2|
|Brassica Oleracea Ambulata, from scroll||630||240||38.1|
JPoCT costs 100 gp, making the expected xp return 1500, while BOA costs 40 gp, making the expected xp return 600. Search takes 15 gp, with an expected return of 225. Looking at Tolca's xp over Seima's expected xp (with the extra attributed to heartbeat xp) for these brings the % much closer to 40.
We also tried a few with Tolca doing the commands:
|Command||Tolca's xp (performing)||Seima's xp||% gained|
|Scribe (350 gp)||10506||5253||50.0|
|Union of the Phoenix and Divine Dragon||771||378||49.0|
This was exactly as expected. UPDD costs 50 gp, so should return 750 xp (the rest of the xp probably being due to heartbeat xp--a casting time of 7 seconds seems fairly reasonable with Tolca's skills), making shared xp of 378 almost exactly 50%. (It's probably actually 375, with the other 3 being from heartbeat xp.)
Command repetition and reduced command xp
Information on the number of commands in an alias versus the amount of time it takes before you can get full xp from the commands goes here.
Commands vs repetition time
|Number of commands||Time before repetition (seconds)|
|1||more than 600 (10 minutes)|
|3||more than 900 (15 minutes)|
|5||240-300 (4-5 minutes)|
The rate seems to go down with the number of repetitions if you don't leave enough time between iterations--sometimes you get full xp the first and second times you go through the alias, but not after that--so it's necessary to go through it at least a few times in a row to be sure.
Pray (as a priest) normally gives 10x. Rates given are all after the initial 10x pray.
- Waiting two minutes (with variation of less than four seconds in either direction) between prays several times in a row gave varying rates between ~3.4x and ~1.36x (xp/gp: 784/236, 685/240, 815/244, 534/240, 354/240, 322/236).
- Waiting four minutes between prays (and using my max of 417 gp) gave 10x, then 6.67x, then 5x, then 2.85x.
- Waiting six minutes between prays (and using max-with-beads of 425 gp) gave 10x, then 10x, then 6.67x, then 5x, then 2.85x.
- Waiting eight minutes gave 10x, then 10x, then 6.67x, then 3.33
- Waiting either ten minutes or ten and a half minutes (may have misdone it) gave 10x, then 10x, then 6.67x, then 5x, then 4x, then 3.33x.
Consecrate normally gives 30x.
- Waiting ten minutes gave 30x, then 30x, then 20x, then 10x
Rituals normally give 15x.
- Waiting four minutes between performs (of major shield (108 gp since ritual assistance was on)) gave 15x, then 10x, then 5x, then 5.95x, then 5.01x.
- Waiting five minutes between performs (of agoraphobia (122 gp since ritual assistance was on) gave 15x, then 15x, then 10x, then 5x.
With an alias of score;play pipe;perform solo on pipe;serenade cat on pipe, for a total of 30 gp(all 15x commands):
- Waiting four minutes gave 15x, then 10x, then 6.67x, then 7.5x, then 7.5x.
- Waiting six minutes gave 15x, then 15x, then 10x, then 10x.
- Waiting eight minutes gave 15x, then 15x, then 10x, then 10x, then 10x.
- Waiting ten minutes gave 15x, then 15x, then 10x, then 10x.
- Waiting fifteen minutes gave 15x, then 15x, then 10x... probably not much point in continuing. Wow.
With an alias of score;slip beads from hands;palm beads to hands;study map;consult map;locate ankh-morpork on map;score (all 15x commands) for a total of 70 gp:
- Waiting four minutes between gave 15x, then 10, then 9.84x, then 10.1x, then 9.99x, then 10x, then 10x, then 10x, then 10x. Maybe it stabilizes at this point.
- Waiting five minutes between gave 15x, then 14.97x, then 15x, then 15x, then 14.72x, then 15x, then 14.97x, then 15x. Probably just at or above the minimum.
- Waiting six minutes between gave 15x, then 15x, then 15x, then 15x, then 15x... this seems to be at or above the minimum.
With an alias of score;strum harp;play harp;perform solo on harp;serenade cat on harp;study map;consult map;locate ankh-morpork on map;score (all 15x commands), for a total of 90 gp:
- Waiting three minutes, 45 seconds between gave 13.43x, then 13.43x, then 13.41x, then 13.25x, then 13.41x, then 13.25x. Probably just barely under the minimum.
- Waiting four minutes between gave 15x, then 15x, then 15x, then 15x, then 14.77x, then 15x, then 15x. This looks to be above the minimum, although possibly just barely.
Same alias as for seven, only with hide added to the beginning for 100 gp total, still with only 15x commands.
- Waiting three minutes between gave 10.09x, then 9.83x, then 10.09x, then 10x, then 10.1x, then 9.89x.
- Waiting three and a half minutes between gave 12x, then 11.99x, then 12x, then 11.99x, then 12.12x, then 11.8x, then 12.12x, then 11.81x.
- Waiting four minutes between gave 15x, then 15x, then 15x, then 14.71x, then 15x, then 14.98x. Seems to be right around the minimum wait.
Same alias as for eight, only with meditate upon obsecration added to the end for 200 gp total, still with only 15x commands.
- Waiting three minutes between gave 10x, then 10x.
- Waiting three and a half minutes between gave 12.15x, then 11.65x, then 12.3x.
- Waiting four minutes between gave 15x, then 15x.
General wisdom is that there's no time limit for repeating an alias with eleven or more commands.
This is just a fun bit of research i've done, since the subject cropped up a few times in idle conversation. (Hurr)
These are the theoretical maximum XP rates you can achieve with each GP regen arrangement. This should only be taken as a rough guide, the rates here can never actually be achieved. The maximum a player can reach, given the nature of aliases and manual input, as probably about 5-10k per hour less than these numbers.
These are worked out for an alias/aliases that have an entirely 30x GP to XP conversion rate.
4 GP Regen
|Heartbeats per hour||1,800||3,600 seconds in an hour, divided by 2 (The length of 1 heartbeat)|
|Guild Points used per hour||7,200||1,800 heartbeats times 4 GP per heartbeat|
|Command Experience Gained per hour||216,000||7,200 GP used times 30 for the conversion to XP|
|Total Experience Gained per hour||221,400||Plus 5,400 heartbeat experience.|
3 GP Regen
|Heartbeats per hour||1,800|
|Guild Points used per hour||5,400||1,800 heartbeats times 3 GP per heartbeat|
|Command Experience Gained per hour||162,000||5,400 GP used times 30 for the conversion to XP|
|Total Experience Gained per hour||167,400|
2 GP Regen
|Heartbeats per hour||1,800|
|Guild Points used per hour||3,600||1,800 heartbeats times 2 GP per heartbeat|
|Command Experience Gained per hour||108,000||3,600 GP used times 30 for the conversion to XP|
|Total Experience Gained per hour||113,400|
Maximum group rates are even more theoretical than solo, unless you have a group of robot thieves. There is also a somewhat un-measurable amount of experience reduction starting at 600,000 xp/hr, which reduces XP further beyond that point.
4 GP Regen
|Experience per hour (player)||221,400|
|Shared experience per hour (groupmates)||540,000||216,000 times 5 for each groupmate, divided by 2 for maximum shared XP|
|Total Experience Gained per hour||761,400||221,400 solo XP plus 540,000 shared XP|
3 GP Regen
|Experience per hour (player)||167,400|
|Shared experience per hour (groupmates)||405,000||162,000 times 5 for each groupmate, divided by 2 for maximum shared XP|
|Total Experience Gained per hour||572,400||167,400 solo XP plus 405,000 shared XP|
Kill xp as a proportion of bury xp
The idea here is to see if/make sure the kill xp you get really is (bury xp)*(npc's guild level)/(your guild level) when you're a higher level than the npc.
Here, I'm killing some witch npcs, as they have a visible indicator of guild level (warts), although it's approximate.
In order to avoid the complication of xp reduction, wimpy was at 0, xp rate was under 100k, and no minions were used.
|Killer's GL||NPC's GL range||Kill XP||Bury XP||Predicted kill XP||Within predictions?|
Based on this, it seems to work. Only one instance of kill xp was outside the expected range, and then only by 1 xp. It's possible that rounding, or heartbeat xp, was responsible.