Research:Climbing gloves

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I compared full skills before and while wearing climbing globes. The following were the skills that changed. There were no stat loss due to burden.

Skill                               lvl  base  with  diff
adventuring.movement.climbing.tree  101   183   207   +24
adventuring.movement.climbing.rock  151   207   251   +44
adventuring.movement.climbing.rope  126   195   219   +24
covert.manipulation.palming          49   175   149   -26
covert.manipulation.passing          46   172   146   -26
covert.manipulation.sleight-of-hand 149   236   210   -26
covert.manipulation.stealing        106   213   187   -26
magic.items.held.broom              300   316   294   -22
magic.items.worn.ring               300   316   294   -22

My stats: C 8, D 12, I 16, S 16, W 13. Frazyl 01:39, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

The bonuses and penalties aren't always the same... here are mine:

Skill                               lvl  base  with  diff
adventuring.movement.climbing.tree   53   161   182   +21
adventuring.movement.climbing.rock   44   152   193   +41
adventuring.movement.climbing.rope   26   113   134   +21
covert.manipulation.palming          27   117    90   -27
covert.manipulation.passing          43   153   126   -27
covert.manipulation.sleight-of-hand   9    45    18   -27
covert.manipulation.stealing        287   284   257   -27
magic.items.held.broom                5    27     4   -23
magic.items.worn.ring                 5    27     4   -23

My stats were the same throughout, and are C 12, D 11, I 15, S 11, W 16.

I suspect it doesn't have to do with your bonus in the relevant skills, because if it did then I wouldn't expect the penalty to be the same for widely varying skills (with the co.ma skills all having the same penalty as each other). So, it seems likely to me that it depends on stats, probably dex.

--Ilde 03:17, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Well we can try with stat penalties to see if it changes something. Or maybe it's just a percentage of the total bonus? Frazyl 03:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

With -1 dex: C 8, D 11 (-1), I 16, S 16, W 13.

Skill                               lvl  base  with  diff
adventuring.movement.climbing.tree  101   179   202   +23
adventuring.movement.climbing.rock  151   203   246   +43
adventuring.movement.climbing.rope  126   192   215   +23
covert.manipulation.palming          49   173   146   -27
covert.manipulation.passing          46   169   142   -27
covert.manipulation.sleight-of-hand 149   232   205   -27
covert.manipulation.stealing        106   210   183   -27
magic.items.held.broom              300   314   292   -22
magic.items.worn.ring               300   314   292   -22

So the bonus impact did change, but not for the magic ones... Those I have pretty high. Frazyl 03:50, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Skill                               lvl  base  with  diff
adventuring.movement.climbing       139   201
adventuring.movement.climbing.tree  108   187   211   +24
adventuring.movement.climbing.rock  160   212   256   +44
adventuring.movement.climbing.rope  149   206   230   +24
covert.manipulation                  92   205
covert.manipulation.palming          50   176   150   -26
covert.manipulation.passing          50   176   150   -26
covert.manipulation.sleight-of-hand 164   245   219   -26
covert.manipulation.stealing        106   213   187   -26
magic.items                         199   261
magic.items.held.broom              300   316   294   -22
magic.items.worn.ring               300   316   294   -22

C 8, D 12, I 16, S 16, W 13

A bit later, small variations didn't change the impact for me, weakly supporting the idea that stats are involved instead of base bonus.

If it's based on stats it might be linked to the mix for the skills:

  • adventuring.movement.climbing is CCDDS
  • covert.manipulation is DDISS
  • magic.items is DIIWW

With thief's daggers: C 8, D 13 (1), I 16, S 16, W 13 it gives me climbing +24/+44, manipulation -26, items -22 so no change.

With : C 5 (-3), D 12, I 19 (3), S 16, W 15 (2) it gives me climbing +24/+44, manipulation -26, items -21, so only items 1 point less penalty. --Frazyl 03:38, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

New test

Checking again to verify it's still does the same thing with normal stats con 8, 12 dex, int 16, str 16, wis 13 reveals the following changes:

Skill Level Bonus
before
Bonus
after
Change Level multiplier
covert.manipulation.palming 50 176 150 -26 0.7
covert.manipulation.passing 50 176 150 -26 0.7
covert.manipulation.sleight-of-hand 169 247 221 -26 0.72
covert.manipulation.stealing 166 246 220 -26 0.72
magic.items.held.broom 300 316 294 -22 0.86
magic.items.worn.ring 300 316 294 -22 0.86
adventuring.movement.climbing.tree 108 187 211 +24 1.48
adventuring.movement.climbing.rock 165 214 258 +44 1.56
adventuring.movement.climbing.rope 151 207 231 +24 1.35

As in Research:Climbing shoes I tried to match the new bonus with a multiplier to the original level that would give this bonus.

This doesn't work too well with Ilde's values so in addition to the multiplier there must be a value added or removed to the bonus like for watching. --Frazyl 07:40, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Here my values (con 9, dex 13, int 22, str 13, wis 8):

Skill Level Bonus
before
Bonus
after
Change Level multiplier
covert.manipulation.palming 40 166 140 -26
covert.manipulation.passing 41 167 141 -26
covert.manipulation.sleight-of-hand 62 190 164 -26
covert.manipulation.stealing 78 199 173 -26
magic.items.held.broom 300 309 290 -19
magic.items.worn.ring 300 309 290 -19
adventuring.movement.climbing.tree 50 157 180 +23
adventuring.movement.climbing.rock 83 178 221 +43
adventuring.movement.climbing.rope 80 177 200 +23

Not sure how to calculate the multiplier so I left it for you to fill in. --Gunde 13:42, 7 August 2011 (UTC)


Here's some more data with stats and skills for what its worth

Here's with base stats of: con 10, dex 16, int 10, str 20, wis 9

Skill Level Bonus
before
Bonus
after
Change Level multiplier
covert.manipulation.palming 102 221 196 -25
covert.manipulation.passing 102 221 196 -25
covert.manipulation.sleight-of-hand 100 220 195 -25
covert.manipulation.stealing 134 240 215 -25
magic.items.held.broom 15 71 46 -25
magic.items.worn.ring 50 152 127 -25
adventuring.movement.climbing.tree 316 328 353 +25
adventuring.movement.climbing.rock 170 247 293 +46
adventuring.movement.climbing.rope 150 236 262 +26

Here's with a bronze helm:

con 7, dex 16, int 13, str 20, wis 11

Skill Level Bonus
before
Bonus
after
Change Level multiplier
covert.manipulation.palming 102 227 202 -25
covert.manipulation.passing 102 227 202 -25
covert.manipulation.sleight-of-hand 100 225 200 -25
covert.manipulation.stealing 134 246 221 -25
magic.items.held.broom 15 78 54 -24
magic.items.worn.ring 50 167 143 -24
adventuring.movement.climbing.tree 316 303 331 +28
adventuring.movement.climbing.rock 170 229 277 +48
adventuring.movement.climbing.rope 150 219 247 +28

Here's with a flat cap:

con 10, dex 16, int 12, str 17, wis 12

Skill Level Bonus
before
Bonus
after
Change Level multiplier
covert.manipulation.palming 102 219 194 -25
covert.manipulation.passing 102 219 194 -25
covert.manipulation.sleight-of-hand 100 218 193 -25
covert.manipulation.stealing 134 237 212 -25
magic.items.held.broom 15 78 54 -24
magic.items.worn.ring 50 167 143 -24
adventuring.movement.climbing.tree 316 320 346 +26
adventuring.movement.climbing.rock 170 241 287 +46
adventuring.movement.climbing.rope 150 231 257 +26


Here's with lowest con and str I can get holding beads then wearing a flat cap, and wearing bronze helm in that order one at a time:

con 3, dex 13, int 12, str 15, wis 12

Skill Level Bonus
before
Bonus
after
Change Level multiplier
covert.manipulation.palming 102 206 180 -26
covert.manipulation.passing 102 206 180 -26
covert.manipulation.sleight-of-hand 100 205 179 -26
covert.manipulation.stealing 134 223 197 -26
magic.items.held.broom 15 76 52 -24
magic.items.worn.ring 50 164 140 -24
adventuring.movement.climbing.tree 316 230 254 +24
adventuring.movement.climbing.rock 170 174 218 +44
adventuring.movement.climbing.rope 150 166 190 +24

I can get much more variations if you want. --Baldarov 15:52, 7 August 2011 (UTC)


Ok I did some more research and found that varying wisdom from 13 down to 1 did not in any way alter the amount of modifications from the base of con 8, dex 12, int 16, str 16, wis 13. It is therefore likely that wisdom has no impact.

I'm not sure how to reduce intelligence significantly. A wizard could cross-contemplate several times to bring it down to 1, wait until it grows back to 2 and all in between.

Testing strength without knowing the impact of intelligence to use the flat cap seems difficult, maybe a cold (poke Pewsey) might work in a cold room...

For constitution there's the Ohulan Cutash doctor.

I got dexterity down to 4 by having Nanny Ogg break both my legs (-3 each) then burden at 75% (-2) and on the next run down to -5 dexterity by eating a hundred year old egg but it left me at -3 until I logged out.

So here's the results. (The raw data is both boring and very large.)

The bonuses in the trees of stealth or magic were the same for the same dex.

The stats that didn't change were con 8, int 16, str 16, wis 13.

For the climbing gloves, for a varying dexterity:

Skill category 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Stealth -30 -30 -29 -29 -29 -28 -28 -28 -27 -27 -27 -26 -26
Magic -22 for all
climbing.tree/rope 18 19 19 20 20 21 21 22 22 23 23 24 24
climbing.rock 38 39 39 40 40 41 41 42 42 43 43 44 44

For the climbing footwear, for a varying dexterity:

Skill category 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Stealth -25 -25 -24 -24 -24 -23 -23 -23 -22 -22 -22 -21 -21
climbing.tree 16 17 17 18 18 19 19 20 20 21 21 22 22
climbing.rock 33 34 34 35 35 36 36 37 37 38 38 39 39

So now we just need results for intelligence, constitution and strength. --Frazyl 10:21, 8 August 2011 (UTC)


For varying intelligence by escaping scrolls there's only variations for magic skills so only for climbing gloves.

Skill category 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
Magic -30** -29** -29** -28** -28 -27* -27 -26 -26* -25* -25 -24 -24 -23 -23 -22
*: Interpolated.
**: Extrapolated.

There were a few missing values but I think the sequence is obvious enough. --Frazyl 08:54, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

I tested constitution from 5 to 8 and it had no impact. --Frazyl 23:50, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

For strength I only got a few because the cold/hypothermia didn't want to drop my stats much for some reason. Only climbing skills were affected.

For the climbing gloves

Skill 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
climbing.tree/rope 16* 17* 17* 18* 18* 19* 19* 20* 20* 21* 21* 22* 22 23 23 24
climbing.rock 36* 37* 37* 38* 38* 39* 39* 40* 40* 41* 41* 42* 42 43 43 44
*: Extrapolated.

For the climbing footwear

Skill 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
climbing.tree 14* 15* 15* 16* 16* 17* 17* 18* 18* 19* 19* 20* 20 21 21 22
climbing.rock 31* 32* 32* 33* 33* 34* 34* 35* 35* 36* 36* 37* 37 38 38 39
*: Extrapolated.

By the way boosting stats with stat items do not improve these changes when wearing climbing things, only stat drops change the values. --Frazyl 05:14, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Formulas

The following formulas fit the available data, except Baldarov's base stats diffs which can't be right anyway since tree and rope are not the same diff and adding a bronze helm can't change climbing skills which are CCDDS so something is wrong there.

climbing gloves

Stealth=floor(dex/3)-30
Magic=floor(int/2)-30
climbing.tree/rope=10+floor((dex+str)/2)
climbing.rock=30+floor((dex+str)/2)

climbing footwear

Stealth=floor(dex/3)-25
climbing.tree=8+floor((dex+str)/2)
climbing.rock=25+floor((dex+str)/2)

--Frazyl 05:14, 16 September 2011 (UTC)