Difference between revisions of "Research:Squirming black tentacle"
(Clarifying my garbled research on the squirming black tentacle.) |
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| − | + | grappling bonus: | |
| − | + | before holding: grappling....... 248 297 | |
| − | + | after holding: grappling....... 248 327 | |
| − | + | have not yet determined if this is a flat or proportional boost --[[User:Kimo|Kimo]] ([[User talk:Kimo|talk]]) 23:14, 4 September 2020 (EDT) | |
| − | + | my fi.un.gr also increased by 30 points when holding from 299(309) to 299(339). I suspect it may be a flat boost, or a flat portion plus variable based on stats? In either case, I feel like the effect of the tentacle will rise the higher your actual bonus is. I.e. much more equivalent of xp/levels gained if your bonus is already very high. Gaining 30 bonus if you are at 300 is probably worth less than if you are at 500. - Squishii 23/09/21 | |
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| − | + | have discovered Limdul and his straw dummy in the basement at djb guards. limdul seems to judge attacks based on your skill levels rather than damage, and implied strongly that my skills aren't high enough to make full use of the tentacle which is really interesting and not too surprising considering the difficulty levels of the other sailing weapons. my striking bonus is currently 452, tactics 413. --[[User:Kimo|Kimo]] ([[User talk:Kimo|talk]]) 13:10, 20 March 2021 (EDT) | |
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| − | + | I believe Limdul uses overall melee damage to decide whether you are skilful enough. Unfortunately for unarmed, no matter how skilled you are, because it is a lower damage melee type, he is likely | |
| + | to give you a poor summary whatever the situation. I still get bad results with him even at around 650 striking bonus. The only time he has given me better results was when I was on insane tactics, with the tentacle and OBBK working at the same time. But I haven't managed to repeat that so I believe I got lucky and had a bunch of critical hits in that test. --[[User:Toffee|Toffee]] ([[User talk:Toffee|talk]]) 17:33, 05 February 2022 (GMT) | ||
| − | + | Having tested the tentacle pretty thoroughly, I'd like to summarise my research that was previously listed on this page in a clearer fashion. | |
| − | + | - The tentacle can be used in one of two ways, one handed by setting tactics to just attack with the tentacle hand or using both hands which will give you punch attacks with your normal hand too. Just attacking with the tentacle on its own reduces the amount of attacks you can launch in combat in a similar fashion to just attacking one handed with a weapon, without an off-hand weapon. Consequently to get the maximum amount of hits per round you need a lot of tactics and melee to fight effectively like this. If you have enough melee and tactics this may be more damaging because the tentacle attacks are superior to punch attacks but this might be very difficult. Alternatively you can attack with your punching hand and the tentacle. The melee+tactics bonus needed for this is much lower as you attack a lot faster but the lower damage punches bring the average damage of your hits down a little. Usually I would say it is better to attack with both hands as more hits are preferable. | |
| − | + | - The tentacle prevents the user from holding items with the hand that is the tentacle except in a few possibly buggy cases. If you need a free hand for any reason, having a tentacle can be a detriment. For example, for gathering body parts from opponents for spells, having a free hand to hold a dagger cuts down on the time needed to harvest components. | |
| − | + | - Overall the tentacle is on the lower end of the unarmed damage spectrum. From testing the lion paws and the knuckle dusters seem the best. When using both hands to fight (so including punches) the average damage is lower with the tentacle and when using just the tentacle (and not punching as well) the tentacle is too slow to compete, at least with my tactics+melee skill. If you have enough skill to attack fast enough with just the tentacle hand and not use unimproved punches, the tentacle damage would still be slightly lower than the lion paws. In fact a reputable source has confirmed that it is intended that the squirming black tentacle has lower damage than the lion paws and that is because the item is tradeable and the lion paws are not.* | |
| − | + | - If you are using punch attacks together with the tentacle (fighting with both hands) then you can boost the damage with the Old Bellicus' Brazen Knuckles spell. OBBK will improve the punch damage greatly and increase the overall average damage you do in melee when using the tentacle. This will likely make the tentacle more effective than the lion paws or the knuckle dusters. Or you could just use OBBK on it's own for even greater damage. | |
| − | + | - As Kimo points out in her research, the tentacle gives a +30 bonus to grappling. I believe this is a flat bonus as everyone I have spoken to seems to agree they get the same bonus increase, regardless of skill level. | |
| − | The tentacle | + | - The tentacle attacks are blunt damage so its ability to penetrate armour and damage trolls is better than the lion paws. |
| − | + | - Using the tentacle requires less burden than the lion paws or the knuckle dusters. It was about 1% saving at 14 strength. | |
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| − | + | - Visiting an Igor with the huge black tentacle active won't change anything with your arm state. | |
| − | + | - It is impossible to wear anything on the player's hands with the huge black tentacle active (including iron gauntlets or dex gloves). | |
| − | + | - Despite it's constant unique enchantment description line always reading "Writhing octarine light spills from it, barely contained by its physical boundaries.", it is possible to enchant the item. This was checked with a thaumometer and at max enchantment it radiates six thaums per second. | |
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| − | + | - Duration doesn't increase if the player stays wet. | |
| − | + | -A final point with the way the damage has been calculated. I worked out the average damage to see which unarmed aid does the most damage overall. However, despite the knuckle dusters | |
| − | + | (due to having all punch attacks improved) doing the best non-spell damage overall, just squeaking past the lion paws - both the tentacle and the lion paws have higher damage individual hits that are mixed in with lower damage punch attacks. This means you can get bursts of damage that are higher than the knuckle dusters with both the tentacle and the lion paws which may be useful for breaking through armour or troll skin. | |
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| − | + | *One set of data taken over 100 hits suggested that the average damage when using the tentacle (with punches included) was 193hp, without punches was 204hp and the lion paws were 216hp. | |
| + | --[[User:Toffee|Toffee]] ([[User talk:Toffee|talk]]) 17:35, 05 February 2022 (GMT) | ||
Latest revision as of 13:40, 5 February 2022
grappling bonus:
before holding: grappling....... 248 297
after holding: grappling....... 248 327
have not yet determined if this is a flat or proportional boost --Kimo (talk) 23:14, 4 September 2020 (EDT)
my fi.un.gr also increased by 30 points when holding from 299(309) to 299(339). I suspect it may be a flat boost, or a flat portion plus variable based on stats? In either case, I feel like the effect of the tentacle will rise the higher your actual bonus is. I.e. much more equivalent of xp/levels gained if your bonus is already very high. Gaining 30 bonus if you are at 300 is probably worth less than if you are at 500. - Squishii 23/09/21
have discovered Limdul and his straw dummy in the basement at djb guards. limdul seems to judge attacks based on your skill levels rather than damage, and implied strongly that my skills aren't high enough to make full use of the tentacle which is really interesting and not too surprising considering the difficulty levels of the other sailing weapons. my striking bonus is currently 452, tactics 413. --Kimo (talk) 13:10, 20 March 2021 (EDT)
I believe Limdul uses overall melee damage to decide whether you are skilful enough. Unfortunately for unarmed, no matter how skilled you are, because it is a lower damage melee type, he is likely to give you a poor summary whatever the situation. I still get bad results with him even at around 650 striking bonus. The only time he has given me better results was when I was on insane tactics, with the tentacle and OBBK working at the same time. But I haven't managed to repeat that so I believe I got lucky and had a bunch of critical hits in that test. --Toffee (talk) 17:33, 05 February 2022 (GMT)
Having tested the tentacle pretty thoroughly, I'd like to summarise my research that was previously listed on this page in a clearer fashion.
- The tentacle can be used in one of two ways, one handed by setting tactics to just attack with the tentacle hand or using both hands which will give you punch attacks with your normal hand too. Just attacking with the tentacle on its own reduces the amount of attacks you can launch in combat in a similar fashion to just attacking one handed with a weapon, without an off-hand weapon. Consequently to get the maximum amount of hits per round you need a lot of tactics and melee to fight effectively like this. If you have enough melee and tactics this may be more damaging because the tentacle attacks are superior to punch attacks but this might be very difficult. Alternatively you can attack with your punching hand and the tentacle. The melee+tactics bonus needed for this is much lower as you attack a lot faster but the lower damage punches bring the average damage of your hits down a little. Usually I would say it is better to attack with both hands as more hits are preferable.
- The tentacle prevents the user from holding items with the hand that is the tentacle except in a few possibly buggy cases. If you need a free hand for any reason, having a tentacle can be a detriment. For example, for gathering body parts from opponents for spells, having a free hand to hold a dagger cuts down on the time needed to harvest components.
- Overall the tentacle is on the lower end of the unarmed damage spectrum. From testing the lion paws and the knuckle dusters seem the best. When using both hands to fight (so including punches) the average damage is lower with the tentacle and when using just the tentacle (and not punching as well) the tentacle is too slow to compete, at least with my tactics+melee skill. If you have enough skill to attack fast enough with just the tentacle hand and not use unimproved punches, the tentacle damage would still be slightly lower than the lion paws. In fact a reputable source has confirmed that it is intended that the squirming black tentacle has lower damage than the lion paws and that is because the item is tradeable and the lion paws are not.*
- If you are using punch attacks together with the tentacle (fighting with both hands) then you can boost the damage with the Old Bellicus' Brazen Knuckles spell. OBBK will improve the punch damage greatly and increase the overall average damage you do in melee when using the tentacle. This will likely make the tentacle more effective than the lion paws or the knuckle dusters. Or you could just use OBBK on it's own for even greater damage.
- As Kimo points out in her research, the tentacle gives a +30 bonus to grappling. I believe this is a flat bonus as everyone I have spoken to seems to agree they get the same bonus increase, regardless of skill level.
- The tentacle attacks are blunt damage so its ability to penetrate armour and damage trolls is better than the lion paws.
- Using the tentacle requires less burden than the lion paws or the knuckle dusters. It was about 1% saving at 14 strength.
- Visiting an Igor with the huge black tentacle active won't change anything with your arm state.
- It is impossible to wear anything on the player's hands with the huge black tentacle active (including iron gauntlets or dex gloves).
- Despite it's constant unique enchantment description line always reading "Writhing octarine light spills from it, barely contained by its physical boundaries.", it is possible to enchant the item. This was checked with a thaumometer and at max enchantment it radiates six thaums per second.
- Duration doesn't increase if the player stays wet.
-A final point with the way the damage has been calculated. I worked out the average damage to see which unarmed aid does the most damage overall. However, despite the knuckle dusters (due to having all punch attacks improved) doing the best non-spell damage overall, just squeaking past the lion paws - both the tentacle and the lion paws have higher damage individual hits that are mixed in with lower damage punch attacks. This means you can get bursts of damage that are higher than the knuckle dusters with both the tentacle and the lion paws which may be useful for breaking through armour or troll skin.
- One set of data taken over 100 hits suggested that the average damage when using the tentacle (with punches included) was 193hp, without punches was 204hp and the lion paws were 216hp.
