Research:Magic.spells

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TM-ranges

As I noticed a while ago, there seems to be a relationship between the average bonus of all methods involved in a spell and the related ma.sp.* skill bonus regarding TM chances. All out of a sudden I started to TM ma.sp.offensive using Nargl'frob's Empyrean Spear after I TMed countless elemental methods involved before. So I thought there was a connection between the methods getting better and finally my ma.sp.offensive starting to TM as well.

It seems roughly to be (average methods bonus) + (spell size) + 20 or perhaps (average methods bonus) + 1.5 (spell size). I conclude from this, that the strength/potency of a spell is determined by the method stages of the spell and a final check against the related ma.sp.* checks if the spell potency is realized.

To check this simplicistic theory I ask all magic users to monitor their ma.sp.* TMs and then kindly check their involved methods bonuses and reached ma.sp.* bonus and then add those numbers in charts like I did mine below.

So what we are looking for:

> Saving... You suddenly feel more puissant in the use of offensive magic.

> Saving... You realise you are now more able to use offensive magic.

> Saving... You sense you have more strength than before in offensive magic.

Example given:

Xorphitus: Nargl'frob's Empyrean Spear

ma.sp.of 362 363 363 364 364 366 366 367 367 368 368 369 369 370 370 371 371 372 372 373 373 375
ma.me.el.wa 277 278 284 284 284 284 284 285 286 286 286 286 286 311 288 288 288 288 288 289 290 290
ma.me.el.ai 294 295 295 296 296 296 296 296 296 296 296 296 296 322 297 297 297 297 297 298 298 298
ma.me.el.fi 306 306 306 306 306 306 306 306 306 306 306 306 306 332 307 307 307 307 307 307 307 307
ma.me.el.ea 280 283 285 285 285 286 286 286 289 289 289 289 289 315 290 290 290 290 290 291 291 291
ma.me.ph.ev 323 323 323 323 323 323 323 330 323 323 323 323 323 323 323 323 330 323 323 330 330 330

Xorphitus: Stacklady's Morphic Resonator

ma.sp.off 375
ma.me.me.ch 403
ma.me.ph.ev 330
ma.me.ph.en 343

Xorphitus: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 326 326 323
ma.me.ph.en 343 343 336
ma.me.ph.ev 330 330 323
ma.me.ph.bi 333 333 326
ma.me.ph.da 262 263 258
ma.me.sp.ba 235 238 239

Brunswick: Nargl'frob's Empyrean Spear

ma.sp.off 330
ma.me.el.ea 257
ma.me.el.ai 283
ma.me.el.fi 298
ma.me.el.wa 255
ma.me.ph.ev 292

Elanor: Nargl'frob's Empyrean Spear

ma.sp.off 352
ma.me.el.ea 306
ma.me.el.ai 310
ma.me.el.fi 309
ma.me.el.wa 307
ma.me.ph.ev 330

Surt: 1 single offensive TM to bonus 364 with DKDD (methods bonus unknown)

Mancow: 38 misc TMs to bonus 332 from JPCT (methods unknown)

Poncho: a few misc TMs with JPCT (methods unknown)

>Another Poncho TM! Poncho: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 325
ma.me.ph.en 297
ma.me.ph.ev 295
ma.me.ph.bi 310
ma.me.ph.da 297
ma.me.sp.ba 295

Mancow: Doctor Kelleflump's Deadly Demon

ma.sp.off 380 380
ma.me.ph.cu 345 345
ma.me.ph.da 347 347
ma.me.sp.ab 356 356
ma.me.sp.ba 357 357
ma.me.sp.su 335 345

anonymously: Effermhor's Hypersonic Assault

ma.sp.off 207
ma.me.ph.ev 173
ma.me.me.ch 209
ma.me.ph.bi 202
ma.me.ph.da 151
ma.me.me.ai 192

Leachim: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 285
ma.me.ph.en 293
ma.me.ph.ev 267
ma.me.ph.bi 267
ma.me.ph.da 264
ma.me.sp.ba 255

Anonymously: Doctor Kelleflump's Deadly Demon

ma.sp.off 359 359 360
ma.me.ph.cu 418 418 418
ma.me.ph.da 377 379 379
ma.me.sp.ab 343 343 343
ma.me.sp.ba 342 342 343
ma.me.sp.su 354 354 354

Calamity: Pragi's Fiery Gaze

ma.sp.off 237
ma.me.ph.ev 211
ma.me.me.ch 240
ma.me.ph.en 222
ma.me.me.an 228
ma.me.el.fi 190

Anonymously: Professor Flambardie's Grim Amulet

ma.sp.misc 332
ma.it.wo.am 201
ma.me.el.wa 312
ma.it.he.wa 252
ma.me.sp.su 354
ma.me.ph.bi 343

Merllend: Collatrap's Instant Pickling Stick

ma.sp.misc 105
ma.me.sp.co 79
ma.me.ph.ev 134
ma.it.he.wa 79
ma.me.ph.da 111

Merllend: Master Woddeley's Luminescent Companion

ma.sp.misc 107
ma.me.ph.ev 134
ma.me.me.ch 134
ma.me.me.an 74

Merllend: Sorklin's Field of Protection

ma.sp.def 123
ma.me.ph.ev 134
ma.me.el.ai 116
ma.me.me.ch 134

Alternatively this first theory might be falsified by contributed data as well. Then maybe there are fixed TM ranges for all spells. And it is still of interest to determine said ranges, so the contributed data is not wasted.

--Xorphitus 21:59, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


Thalic:Wonker's Wicked Wobble

Spell is cast while wearing a bronze helm, so bonuses are listed statted. Second TM was with -1 DEX because of burden.

ma.sp.of 361 362
cr.sm.go 357 358
ma.me.ph.bi 334 335
ma.it.he.ro 280 281
ma.me.ph.en 336 328

--Thalic 10:03, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Galina: Collatrap's Instant Pickling Stick

ma.sp.mi 180
ma.me.sp.co 85
ma.me.ph.ev 183
ma.it.he.wa 82
ma.me.ph.da 183

Master Woddeley's Luminescent Companion

ma.sp.mi 181
ma.me.ph.ev 185
ma.me.me.ch 140
ma.me.me.an 137

Positrix: Jogloran's Portal of Cheaper Travel

ma.sp.misc 300
ma.me.ph.en 250
ma.me.ph.ev 297
ma.me.ph.bi 302
ma.me.ph.da 263
ma.me.sp.ba 253

--User positrix JPCT tmd ma.sp.misc from 285 to 286 with methods of: enchanting.... 201 250 evoking....... 290 297 binding....... 300 302 dancing....... 225 263 banishing..... 181 253

Historical board messages regarding the changes to magic spells and their power


Note #0 by Gruper posted at Sun Sep 12 09:43:00 1999 Title: 'Change to Spell Power'

Bingles,

There has been whining about the uselessness of ma.methods for as long as I can remember. This is what you asked for.

magic.spells.* no longer influences the power of spells. It is now determined by your magic.methods.* bonuses. If you have low ma.me.* and high ma.sp.*, your spells won't be as powerful as you are used to.

We will tweak things a wee bit after we have seen which effects this has.

Gruper

-- Note #0 by Griffin posted at Sun Sep 12 11:49:59 1999 Title: 'Re:#2 Change to Spell Power'

On Sun Sep 12 11:24:43 1999, Erin wrote: > On Sun Sep 12 09:43:00 1999, Gruper wrote: > > Bingles, > > > > There has been whining about the uselessness of ma.methods > > for as long as I can remember. This is what you asked for. > > I never asked for this. Consider this as a whine on how useless > ma.sp.* skills are now.

I rather like this! I expect people to specialise in a few spells and hopefully this will lead to more variety in spell use. I can imagine that it is a bit frustrating for a while for those who have played on the numbers a lot to advance ma.sp. skills extremely high, but in the long run, I think this will mean a major enrichment of playing with magic. I think it also is more logical to do it this way: the better you are at the relevant skills, the better you cast a spell. Yes, very nice.

So I suppose ma.sp.* is now only relevant for spell speed? Our abilities to do stuff will now most probably have changed quite a bit. I suppose we should try to get some idea of how these changes have affected us in order to get this great innovation fine-tuned? My guess is that a bunch of spells will have become less effective now. Let's try to get a good idea the situation before we start complaining? (We'll be able to complain much more effectively once we know exactly what we are up against. ;-) )

Apart from the work on spell speed and now ma.sp.me, I have noticed that a lot of smaller and bigger bugs have been fixed lately. Thanks for investing some time in our guild. Personally, I really appreciate this fresh wind through the musty corridors of Unseen University.

-- Cheers Griffin

Note #0 by Gruper posted at Sun Sep 12 14:17:11 1999 Title: 'Re:#2 Change to Spell Power'

> No offence, but this seems like an overly emotional reaction. > There is probably a lot of people who are going to be awfully > upset that the work they put into raising their ma.sp.* bonuses has > been thrown away in what could seem like a fit of pique.

Sorry, "this is what you asked for" was a bit harshly worded; this change wasn't made to hurt people. We'll go on tweaking things until we reach a solution that seems at least hafway sane. We are now back somewhere between pre change and nastiest Post Change(tm) weights for the different skills.

Gruper

Note #0 by Gruper posted at Sun Sep 12 18:19:05 1999 Title: 'Re:#1 Change in the conception of magic (long)'

Bingles,

I'll just say it again, for luck: we'll tweak stuff until we have reached a nice solution; do not run - we are your friends. Give it a few days.

> This change makes most wizards casting abilities > more or less equal.

Because wizards have the same ma.methods bonuses but vastly different ma.spells? I don't know if this is true or not, but it sounds rather strange. Concerning the "Discworld flavour of magic", i.e. that ma.sp determining power should be more true to the spirit of Discworld... I'll just say that I disagree. Please read Woddeley's Occult Primer for more information about the different skills.

Your most valid point, as I see it, is that I have suddenly turned your world upside down by changing the rules of the game. You have "wasted" zillions of xp on skills that are now a lot less useful than they used to be. This wasn't a nice thing to do. (This is my main reason for not removing casting from scrolls by non-wizards, by the way.)

There has been many changes the last week. When we see the effect of these changes we can start tweaking the individual spells. In the end I hope almost everyone will be happy.

Oh - rants along the lines of "this sux" are bad, complaints like "I used to be able to get thirteen fire bunnies, but now I only manage four" are good. Same thing with casting times: "They're all too slow!" is bad, "TPA now takes 32 seconds, more than twice as long as it used to take with my ma.sp.de at X. This makes it had to use in combat" is good. Gruper -- Troupe of Jugglers, Man Flying Kite, Frowning Emperor


Note #0 by Gruper posted at Fri Sep 17 15:03:43 1999 Title: 'Grodor och andra djur'

[cc witches]

Bingles,

I haven't seen any (valid and convincing) complaints about things that could be considered "my fault", so the tweaking of spell power/efficiency/wotever is over now.

We'll keep looking at casting times for a while. Input is still appreciated.

Gruper --