Research:Finesmithing

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Theory

My personal hypothesis on how the quality of the product is determined:

  • first a check against cr.arts.design to determine what kind of quality tier you are aiming at
  • after this the second forging check against silver or gold smithing to see if you succeed in realizing the idea you had as result of the first design check
  • sculpting checks silver/gold against the design check determined difficulty of the unsculpted jewellery piece (this is because I usually only need 1 to 3 attempts on gold products for sculpting but failed > 30 sculpting attempts on a silver jewellery piece; my gold is 50 points better than my design, but silver is 110 points lower than design); so if your design bonus is lower than the silver/gold bonus, you will succeed quickly in finishing it, but if your design bonus is higher than your gold/silver bonus you will have a hard time finishing sculpting since the set difficulty of the jewellery is too high; but perhaps TM chance then?
  • polishing difficulty are just simple checks of tools bonus against hard coded difficulties which are determined by the jewellery piece overall (the smaller the item, the harder the check AND the better the quality of the jewellery piece forged, the harder the difficulty)

--Xorphitus 17:59, 20 June 2010 (UTC)


Description and material versus value, post-sculpting change

Description copper brass pewter bronze silver gold electrum red gold white gold rose gold black gold platinum copper brass pewter bronze silver gold electrum red gold white gold rose gold black gold platinum copper brass pewter bronze silver gold electrum red gold white gold rose gold black gold platinum
Sculpted, not polished Polished fully with files Polished fully with cloth
cauliflower brooch
evoking memories brooch ~
elegant recalling brooch
affectionate brooch $3.14 $4.40 $21.04 $4.56 $5.55 $26.11 $10.05 $11.72
adoring brooch $3.39 $3.32 $5.42 $23.89 $4.85 $4.91 $7.08 $24.79 $10.04 $9.05 $11.45
snuggle brooch
shapeless leaf ring
uncircular ring
single leaf jewel ring
falling leaves ring
autumn day ring
summer ring
rather poorly made
well made nib
very well made nib
masterful nib
beautiful nib
shapeless chain
evening sky chain
shimmer chain $7.95 $10.25 $17.80
shimmering chain $7.73 $10.64 $11.77 $10.69 $12.20 $14.21 $23.23 $24.71 $25.91
glints and twinkles chain $11.11 $13.53 $15.63 $24.17 $26.93
magical chain

Description and material versus value

Description copper brass pewter bronze silver gold electrum red gold white gold rose gold black gold platinum copper brass pewter bronze silver gold electrum red gold white gold rose gold black gold platinum copper brass pewter bronze silver gold electrum red gold white gold rose gold black gold platinum
Sculpted, not polished Polished fully with files Polished fully with cloth
cauliflower brooch $0.80 $2
evoking memories brooch $0.80 $1 $2 $3 $3 $4 $8 $16 $1 $1 ~$2 $3 ~$16
elegant recalling brooch $1.11 $1.88 $2.03 $2.82 $3.87
affectionate brooch $1.77 $2.02 $2.54 $3.82 $5.10 $5.10 $5.10 $6.38 $11.50 $21.74 $3.68 $3.94 $4.47 $7.12 $8.45 $13.75 $6.62 $8 $9.37 $9.37 $9.37 $10.75 $16.25 $27.25
adoring brooch $2.43 $4.48 $5.76 $5.76 $7.04 $12.16 $22.40 $7.45 $8.77 $8.77 $10.75 $12.12 $12.12 $12.12 $13.50 $19 $30
snuggle brooch $23.12 $13.75 $15.12 $22
shapeless leaf ring $2 $3
uncircular ring $3 $16 ~$16 $2 $16
single leaf jewel ring $3.16 $21.08 $22.70 $5.25 $6.62 $8 $24.50
falling leaves ring $3.82 $11.50 $21.74 $13.75 $24.35 $8 $9.37 $10.75 $16.25 $27.25
autumn day ring $4.48 $5.76 $7.04 $22.40 $7.45 $8.77 $10.10 $26 $10.75 $12.12 $13.50 $30
summer ring
rather poorly made $2 $3 $4 $16 $2 $3 $4 $16 $2 $3 $4 $16
well made nib $10.25
very well made nib $6.34 $7.62 $8.90 $12.10 $13.42 $14.75 $18.50 $19.87 $21.25
masterful nib $8.32 $9.60 $10.88 $16 $17.05 $18.37 $19.70 $25 $26.75 $28.12 $29.50 $35 $46
beautiful nib $10.25 $22.25 $35.75 $37.12 $44 $55
shapeless chain ~$4.20
evening sky chain
shimmering chain $10.11 $14.02 $18.37
glints and twinkles chain $11.43 $17.32 $23.87
magical chain

Old values

Description and material versus value before 26th June

Description copper silver gold electrum red gold white gold rose gold black gold platinum copper silver gold electrum red gold white gold rose gold black gold platinum copper silver gold electrum red gold white gold rose gold black gold platinum
Sculpted, not polished Polished fully with files Polished fully with cloth
evoking memories brooch $0.35 $1.75 ~$2.62 ~$2.62 $7 $14 $0.35 ~$2.62 $0.35 $1.75 $14
elegant recalling brooch $19.20 $21.00 $6.37 $23
affectionate brooch $2.37 $3.06 $4.20 $5.34 $5.34 $5.34 $6.48 $11.04 $20 $5.26 $5.96 $7.12 $8.28 $8.28 $9.45 $14.10 $8.47 $9.18 $10.37 $11.56 $11.56 $11.56 $12.75 $17.50 $27
adoring brooch $3.33 $4.02 $5.16 $6.30 $6.30 $6.30 $7.44 $21.12 $7.66 $8.36 $9.52 $10.68 $10.68 $10.68 $9.60 $12.47 $13.18 $14.37 $15.56 $15.56 $15.56 $16.75 $21.50 $31
snuggle brooch $7.26 $13.08 $18.37 $19.56 $19.56 $19.56
shapeless leaf ring $1.75 $2.62
uncircular ring $2.62 $2.62 $14 $2.62 $14 $14
single leaf jewel ring $3.27 $5.58 $19.44 $7.20 $21.60 $6.50 $7.75 $9 ~$24
falling leaves ring ~$4.20 $5.38 $6.54 $8.40 $9.60 $10.50 $11.75 $11.75 $13 $28
autumn day ring $14.50 $15.75 $17 $32
summer ring $18.50
well made nib $10.75
masterful nib $14.75
beautiful nib $18.75
shapeless chain $1.75
evening sky chain
shimmering chain
glints and twinkles chain $14.62
magical chain

'Tankards'

The tankard value is not directly determinable through the value command, so two approximation methods are used:

- value in the Filigree general store and

- fencing result to Sol (on average)

Quality: gold white/red gold/electrum rose gold black gold platinum
tall&slender $7.62 : $ 8.23 $8.77 : $10.01 $  : $ $13.67 : $18.40 $  : $
short&sturdy $8.91 : $10.38 $9.97 : $11.90 $11.05  : $13.58 $14.47 : $20.15 $19.67 : $32.65
Costs: $10 $15 $20 $40 $80

Summary

As it seems now, tiny metal bars being forged, sculpted and polished into cabbage brooches, oak leaf rings and fountain pen nibs bear a small potential profit of averagely A$7 when you fence them to Sol and have about 220 bonus in jewellery valueing and are able to create 2nd best quality results on average and use silver and normal gold.

Metals which are more expensive mean a loss compared to normal gold/silver since the value increases in the exact difference of the material costs of tiny bars. Since you have higher fixing costs (when you damage the jewellery while sculpting/polishing) or aquire the bar from Master Weestone and pay 10% more this way, this leads to LESS value increase. Not to speak of the procentual value loss at the jewellery fence Sol, which is higher compared to actual value of the jewellery the higher the value of the jewellery is, so value loss is smaller with less valuable jewellery pieces i.e. silver and normal gold.

Same effect is noticed crafting larger items (chains of stars, wise owl statuettes, tankards) since the material costs rise quicker than the value increase UNLESS you have impressive skills in cr.arts.design and gold/silver to get high quality products there as well.

In short: Artificers Anonymous hopes for a further tweaking since using higher quality material should produce higher valued products and not mean an actual loss compared to normal gold or silver. And larger items are right now either too difficult for anyone trying at the moment or just are not valuable enough to cope the material costs. You may want to check the tankard table mentioned on the research site mentioned and wince in sympathy. --Xorphitus 19:57, 21 June 2010 (UTC)



Description and material versus value

Pre 19th June:

Description gold electrum red gold white gold rose gold black gold platinum gold electrum red gold white gold rose gold black gold platinum gold electrum red gold white gold rose gold black gold platinum
Sculpted, not polished Polished fully with files Polished fully with cloth
evoking memories brooch $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0
affectionate brooch $3.84 $4.80 $4.80 $5.76 $5.76 $7.68 $9.60 $12 $12 $14.40 $14.40 $19.20 $16 $20 $20 $24 $24 $32
adoring brooch $5.76 $8.64 $8.64 $11.52 $14.40 $21.60 $21.60 $28.80 $24 $36 $36 $48
uncircular ring $0
autumn day ring $5.76 $14.40 $24
evening sky chain $0 $0 $0
shimmering chain $3.84 $4.80 $5.76 $9.60 $12 $14.40 $16 $20 $20 $24
glints and twinkles chain $5.76 $7.20 $8.64 $14.40 ~$18 $21.60 $24 ~$30 $36
magical chain $9.60 $24 $40 $40

Note: today (18.06.2010 at about 11:00) finesmithing was downgraded/changed. The research data presented below here is of historical interest only

Oak leaf rings

Sculpting Polishing (files) Polishing (cloth) Bonuses
Long Description Pass Fail Pass Fail Pass Fail Cr.sm.?? Cr.ar.de Cr.sm.bl.to Material Value
Not entirely circular and not very well polished, a silver band bears a recognisable leaf shape at the front. 2 0 3 5 5 0 208 192 179 Silver 0


Description and material versus value

All of these are for items that have been sculpted (and fixed if necessary), but not polished. Polishing appears to have no effect on the value (based on valuing and fencing two brooches with identical materials and descriptions--one fully polished, one still rough and unpolished).

Description electrum gold black gold rose gold red gold white gold platinum
An elegant circle of <metal> bears a pattern of cabbage fronds in low relief, recalling the tasty and loyal denizens of the Sto Plains. From beneath a frond at the centre of the disc, a pair of eyes peek shyly out with an affectionate gaze. $60 $40 $80
An elegant <metal> disc has been shaped to resemble a lovingly detailed cabbage, each frond picked out in low relief and a pair of eyes peeking shyly from the centre with an adoring gaze. $60 $60 $60 $90 $60 $120
A deeply incised pattern of oak leaves wraps entirely around the <metal> band of this ring, as though falling endlessly from a tree in the autumn. $40 $40 $60 $40 $90
This heavy, ornate ring consists of a thick band of <metal>, wrought in the form of a dozen oak leaves overlapping around its length. Lovingly detailed as they are, the leaves could have been picked from the ground on an autumn day. $60 $60 $60 $90 $60 $60
This heavy, ornate ring consists of a thick band of <metal>, wrought in the form of a dozen intricately detailed oak leaves overlapping around its length. A single acorn, done in low relief, sits cradled between the leaves in the centre. The leaves look as crisp and fresh as if they'd been plucked just that moment from a flourishing tree in the height of summer. $80
A dozen twinkling <metal> stars, strung on a matching necklace, shimmer and draw the eye. $40
A slim, delicate <metal> necklace supports a dozen shimmering, twinkling stars, each the size of a child's fingernail. $40 $40 $60
A slim, delicate <metal> chain supports a dozen shimmering, twinkling stars, the largest no bigger than a child's fingernail. The small movements as they hang from the necklace chain draw the eye, sending the subtlest of glints and twinkles across to anyone watching. $90 $120

Conclusion: For final value, platinum > rose gold > electrum = gold = black gold = red gold = white gold. Platinum offers the greatest potential profit, but rose gold is your best bet if you get low-value descriptions at all often. Quality matters, but amount of metal used might not (as chains of stars, which use very small bars instead of tiny ones, seem to value the same as oak rings and brooches for comparable quality).

Full disclosure: the $90 and $120 values were derived, not gotten from an "on the spot" value like the others (valued with a 300 bonus exactly). It appears that when you get a "close to the real value" result with jewellery, it's 95% of the "on the spot" value, while a "general area" result is 90% of the "on the spot" value. This seemed quite consistent, but may be dependent on bonus or something.