Difference between revisions of "Research:Endorphin's Floating Friend"

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(added section relating to which shields are knocked between two EFFs)
 
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 +
==Two EFF Tests==
 +
 +
{| class="wikitable" border="1"
 +
|-
 +
!Original Shield
 +
!New Shield
 +
!Knocked Shield
 +
|-
 +
| Medium Bone (5 3/9 lbs)
 +
| Small Metal (3 8/9 lbs)
 +
| Small Metal
 +
|-
 +
| Medium Bone
 +
| Crescent Moon (6 2/9 lbs)
 +
| Crescent Moon
 +
|-
 +
| Medium Bone
 +
| Crescent Moon
 +
| Medium Bone
 +
|-
 +
| Crescent Moon
 +
| Small Metal
 +
| Small Metal
 +
|-
 +
| Crescent Moon
 +
| Small Metal
 +
| Small Metal
 +
|-
 +
| Crescent Moon
 +
| Small Metal
 +
| Small Metal
 +
|-
 +
| Small Metal
 +
| Medium Bone
 +
| Medium Bone
 +
|-
 +
| Small Metal
 +
| Crescent Moon
 +
| Crescent Moon
 +
|-
 +
| Small Metal
 +
| Klatchian Steel Tower (14 3/9 lbs)
 +
| Small Metal
 +
|-
 +
| Small Metal
 +
| Klatchian Steel Tower
 +
| Klatchian Steel Tower
 +
|}
 +
 +
==EFF and Effects on Fighting==
 +
 +
Quow's research seems to indicate a fixed [[Action_points|AP]] cost for blocking with EFF, which is well-known.
 +
 +
I engaged combat with a number of NPCs that I would not normally be able to attack with my weapons while EFF up (5+ enemies). I had forgotten that I was skillcapped and I had a 0% block rate with the shield. Combat ended up proceeding as I didn't have EFF up, I was not parrying of course, but I was getting about 1.1 attacks/round off, which was about right for the skillcap. This seems to indicate that a shield being "too late" either costs nothing in terms of action points or significantly less.
 +
 +
For someone of sufficient ma.sp.de for TPA, depending on the content you're doing; this would likely be extra justification for using a shield in the 90% - 95% range if you also partially rely on melee skills. [[User:Venia|Venia]] ([[User talk:Venia|talk]]) 20:11, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
 +
 
==Blocking Research==
 
==Blocking Research==
 +
 +
=== Large Bone Shield (Djb Custom - High Quality), ~ 15 lb ===
  
 
{| class="wikitable" border="1"
 
{| class="wikitable" border="1"
 
|-  
 
|-  
−
! Character
 
 
! Def Levels  
 
! Def Levels  
 
! Raw Bonus  
 
! Raw Bonus  
 
! Modified Bonus  
 
! Modified Bonus  
−
! Shield
 
−
! Shield Weight
 
 
! Blocking Swoops  
 
! Blocking Swoops  
 
! Late Swoops  
 
! Late Swoops  
Line 14: Line 70:
 
! Blocking %
 
! Blocking %
 
! Date
 
! Date
 +
! Character
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Morpheus
 
 
| 114 - 115
 
| 114 - 115
 
| 209  
 
| 209  
 
| 209  
 
| 209  
−
| Large Bone Shield (High Quality)
 
−
| ~ 15 lb
 
 
| 1356  
 
| 1356  
 
| 1387  
 
| 1387  
Line 26: Line 80:
 
| 49.43
 
| 49.43
 
| 26 Jan 2010
 
| 26 Jan 2010
−
|-
 
 
| Morpheus  
 
| Morpheus  
 +
|-
 
| 116 - 117
 
| 116 - 117
 
| 210  
 
| 210  
 
| 210  
 
| 210  
−
| Large Bone Shield (High Quality)
 
−
| ~ 15 lb
 
 
| 403  
 
| 403  
 
| 363  
 
| 363  
Line 38: Line 90:
 
| 52.61
 
| 52.61
 
| 28 Jan 2010
 
| 28 Jan 2010
−
|-
 
 
| Morpheus  
 
| Morpheus  
 +
|-
 
| 118 - 119
 
| 118 - 119
 
| 211  
 
| 211  
 
| 211  
 
| 211  
−
| Large Bone Shield (High Quality)
 
−
| ~ 15 lb
 
 
| 391  
 
| 391  
 
| 317  
 
| 317  
Line 50: Line 100:
 
| 55.23
 
| 55.23
 
| 28 Jan 2010
 
| 28 Jan 2010
−
|-
 
 
| Morpheus  
 
| Morpheus  
 +
|-
 
| 120 - 121
 
| 120 - 121
 
| 212  
 
| 212  
 
| 212  
 
| 212  
−
| Large Bone Shield (High Quality)
 
−
| ~ 15 lb
 
 
| 1513
 
| 1513
 
| 1419
 
| 1419
Line 62: Line 110:
 
| 51.60
 
| 51.60
 
| 28 Jan 2010
 
| 28 Jan 2010
−
|-
 
 
| Morpheus  
 
| Morpheus  
 +
|-
 
| 122 - 123
 
| 122 - 123
 
| 213
 
| 213
 
| 213
 
| 213
−
| Large Bone Shield (High Quality)
 
−
| ~ 15 lb
 
 
| 837
 
| 837
 
| 745
 
| 745
Line 74: Line 120:
 
| 52.91
 
| 52.91
 
| 30 Jan 2010
 
| 30 Jan 2010
−
|-
 
 
| Morpheus  
 
| Morpheus  
 +
|}
 +
 +
=== Medium Metal Shield, 17 7/9 lb ===
 +
 +
{| class="wikitable" border="1"
 +
|-
 +
! Def Levels
 +
! Raw Bonus
 +
! Modified Bonus
 +
! Blocking Swoops
 +
! Late Swoops
 +
! Total Swoops
 +
! Blocking %
 +
! Date
 +
! Character
 +
|-
 
| 200
 
| 200
 
| 255
 
| 255
 
| 255
 
| 255
−
| Medium Metal Shield
 
−
| 17 7/9 lb
 
 
| 2526
 
| 2526
 
| 1342
 
| 1342
Line 86: Line 145:
 
| 65.31
 
| 65.31
 
| 01 Feb 2010
 
| 01 Feb 2010
−
|-
 
 
| Morpheus  
 
| Morpheus  
 +
|-
 +
| 299
 +
| 296
 +
| 296
 +
| 528
 +
| 42
 +
| {{#expr: 528+42}}
 +
| 92.63
 +
| 08 Feb 2010
 +
| [[User:Aberlon|Aberlon]]
 +
|}
 +
 +
=== Large Wooden shield, 20 lb ===
 +
 +
{| class="wikitable" border="1"
 +
|-
 +
! Def Levels
 +
! Raw Bonus
 +
! Modified Bonus
 +
! Blocking Swoops
 +
! Late Swoops
 +
! Total Swoops
 +
! Blocking %
 +
! Date
 +
! Character
 +
|-
 
| 200
 
| 200
 
| 255
 
| 255
 
| 255
 
| 255
−
| large wooden shield
 
−
| 20 lb
 
 
| 829
 
| 829
 
| 1266
 
| 1266
Line 98: Line 180:
 
| 39.57
 
| 39.57
 
| 01 Feb 2010
 
| 01 Feb 2010
−
|-
 
 
| Morpheus  
 
| Morpheus  
 +
|-
 
| 210
 
| 210
 
| 260
 
| 260
 
| 260
 
| 260
−
| large wooden shield
 
−
| 20 lb
 
 
| 974
 
| 974
 
| 1179
 
| 1179
Line 110: Line 190:
 
| 45.24
 
| 45.24
 
| 01 Feb 2010
 
| 01 Feb 2010
−
|-
 
 
| Morpheus  
 
| Morpheus  
−
| 212
+
|-
 +
| 212 - 213
 
| 261
 
| 261
 
| 261
 
| 261
−
| large wooden shield
 
−
| 20 lb
 
 
| 992
 
| 992
 
| 1135
 
| 1135
Line 122: Line 200:
 
| 46.64
 
| 46.64
 
| 01 Feb 2010
 
| 01 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 214
 +
| 262
 +
| 262
 +
| 1204
 +
| 1354
 +
| 2558
 +
| 47.07
 +
| 02 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 224
 +
| 267
 +
| 267
 +
| 1132
 +
| 1083
 +
| 2215
 +
| 51.11
 +
| 02 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 226
 +
| 269
 +
| 269
 +
| 1163
 +
| 1181
 +
| 2344
 +
| 49.62
 +
| 02 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 228
 +
| 270
 +
| 270
 +
| 1685
 +
| 1604
 +
| 3289
 +
| 51.23
 +
| 02 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 244 - 245
 +
| 278
 +
| 278
 +
| 1665
 +
| 1093
 +
| 2758
 +
| 60.37
 +
| 03 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 260 - 261
 +
| 287
 +
| 287
 +
| 2681
 +
| 1164
 +
| 3545
 +
| 67.17
 +
| 04 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 
|-
 
|-
−
| [[User:Aberlon|Aberlon]]
 
 
| 298 - 299
 
| 298 - 299
 
| 296
 
| 296
 
| 296
 
| 296
−
| large wooden shield
 
−
| 20 lb
 
 
| 1952
 
| 1952
 
| 933
 
| 933
Line 134: Line 270:
 
| 67.66
 
| 67.66
 
| 27 Jan 2010
 
| 27 Jan 2010
 +
| [[User:Aberlon|Aberlon]]
 +
|-
 +
| 284
 +
| 299
 +
| 299
 +
| 107
 +
| 29
 +
| 136
 +
| 78.68
 +
| 06 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 286
 +
| 300
 +
| 300
 +
| 2427
 +
| 700
 +
| 3127
 +
| 77.61
 +
| 07 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 294
 +
| 305
 +
| 305
 +
| 566
 +
| 138
 +
| 706
 +
| 80.45
 +
| 07 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 300
 +
| 308
 +
| 308
 +
| 2521
 +
| 472
 +
| 2993
 +
| 84.23
 +
| 07 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 308
 +
| 312
 +
| 312
 +
| 1590
 +
| 255
 +
| 1845
 +
| 86.18
 +
| 13 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 316
 +
| 316
 +
| 316
 +
| 1832
 +
| 256
 +
| 2088
 +
| 87.74
 +
| 13 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 352
 +
| 336
 +
| 336
 +
| 7619
 +
| 509
 +
| 8128
 +
| 93.74
 +
| 23 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 372
 +
| 346
 +
| 346
 +
| 9785
 +
| 344
 +
| 10129
 +
| 96.60
 +
| 04 Mar 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 382
 +
| 351
 +
| 351
 +
| 33869
 +
| 1091
 +
| 34960
 +
| 96.88
 +
| 07 Mar 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|}
 +
 +
Blocking% vs ma.sp.def bonus for Large Wooden Shield:
 +
 +
[[File:Large-wooden-eff.png]]
 +
 +
An [http://www.sined.co.uk/tmp/large-wooden-shield.ods open office spreadsheet] and [http://www.sined.co.uk/tmp/large-wooden-shield.xls an excel export] are available, I'm trying to find an equation for the underlying curve that I believe this graph shows that fits the form 100*(1-e^x) taking based on the shield weight in ninths of a pound (20 * 9 = 180) and the ma.sp.def bonus. If anyone wishes to look at the spreadsheets and play with the values to try and make a curve that matches the observed results, they're welcome to do so.
 +
 +
I'd expect x to be of the form -bonus/weight, possibly with some modifiers to either or both values.
 +
 +
=== Large Steel Shield (Djb Custom, inferior quality), ~ 22 lb ===
 +
 +
{| class="wikitable" border="1"
 +
|-
 +
! Def Levels
 +
! Raw Bonus
 +
! Modified Bonus
 +
! Blocking Swoops
 +
! Late Swoops
 +
! Total Swoops
 +
! Blocking %
 +
! Date
 +
! Character
 +
|-
 +
| 316
 +
| 316
 +
| 316
 +
| 1501
 +
| 602
 +
| 2103
 +
| 71.37
 +
| 13 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 324
 +
| 321
 +
| 321
 +
| 3504
 +
| 1387
 +
| 4891
 +
| 71.64
 +
| 15 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 334
 +
| 326
 +
| 326
 +
| 4448
 +
| 1323
 +
| 5771
 +
| 77.08
 +
| 16 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 342
 +
| 330
 +
| 330
 +
| 4995
 +
| 1334
 +
| 6329
 +
| 78.92
 +
| 23 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 352
 +
| 336
 +
| 336
 +
| 5769
 +
| 1106
 +
| 6875
 +
| 83.91
 +
| 25 Feb 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 362
 +
| 341
 +
| 341
 +
| 17125
 +
| 2667
 +
| 19792
 +
| 86.52
 +
| 03 Mar 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 372
 +
| 346
 +
| 346
 +
| 11070
 +
| 1430
 +
| 12500
 +
| 88.56
 +
| 07 Mar 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 382
 +
| 351
 +
| 351
 +
| 4777
 +
| 522
 +
| 5299
 +
| 90.15
 +
| 08 Mar 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 392
 +
| 357
 +
| 357
 +
| 4136
 +
| 316
 +
| 4452
 +
| 92.90
 +
| 10 Mar 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|-
 +
| 400
 +
| 361
 +
| 361
 +
| 47560
 +
| 3230
 +
| 50790
 +
| 93.64
 +
| 2 Apr 2010
 +
| Morpheus
 +
|}
 +
 +
=== Tsortean Metal Shield, 27 7/9 lb ===
 +
 +
{| class="wikitable" border="1"
 +
|-
 +
! Def Levels
 +
! Raw Bonus
 +
! Modified Bonus
 +
! Blocking Swoops
 +
! Late Swoops
 +
! Total Swoops
 +
! Blocking %
 +
! Date
 +
! Character
 
|-
 
|-
−
| [[User:Menouthis|Menouthis]]
 
 
| 592
 
| 592
 
| 450  
 
| 450  
 
| 450  
 
| 450  
−
| Tsortean Metal Shield
 
−
| 27 7/9 lb
 
 
| 4019
 
| 4019
 
| 184  
 
| 184  
Line 146: Line 508:
 
| 95.43
 
| 95.43
 
| 27 Jan 2010
 
| 27 Jan 2010
 +
| [[User:Menouthis|Menouthis]]
 
|}
 
|}
 +
 +
==Notes==
  
 
I suggest checking whether the abilities of the attacker have any influence on the blocking rate before gathering too much of this data, otherwise you're going to find it's uncomparable unless everyone fights against the same type of NPC, which wields the same type of weapon, in the same lighting conditions, etc, etc...
 
I suggest checking whether the abilities of the attacker have any influence on the blocking rate before gathering too much of this data, otherwise you're going to find it's uncomparable unless everyone fights against the same type of NPC, which wields the same type of weapon, in the same lighting conditions, etc, etc...
Line 156: Line 521:
 
Empirically I think I have enough experience of the spell to categorically state that blocking is simply a case of bonus vs shield weight. [[User:Zexium|Zexium]] 01:16, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 
Empirically I think I have enough experience of the spell to categorically state that blocking is simply a case of bonus vs shield weight. [[User:Zexium|Zexium]] 01:16, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
  
−
The bigger the sample size the more reliable the block %, so ideally we want all the data for a single user / shield / bonus as a single entry. Fixed Aberlon's data. [[User:Zexium|Zexium]] 09:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
+
The bigger the sample size the more reliable the block %, so ideally we want all the data for a single user / shield / bonus as a single entry. Aggregated Aberlon's large wooden shield data. [[User:Zexium|Zexium]] 09:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 03:23, 11 March 2023

Two EFF Tests

Original Shield New Shield Knocked Shield
Medium Bone (5 3/9 lbs) Small Metal (3 8/9 lbs) Small Metal
Medium Bone Crescent Moon (6 2/9 lbs) Crescent Moon
Medium Bone Crescent Moon Medium Bone
Crescent Moon Small Metal Small Metal
Crescent Moon Small Metal Small Metal
Crescent Moon Small Metal Small Metal
Small Metal Medium Bone Medium Bone
Small Metal Crescent Moon Crescent Moon
Small Metal Klatchian Steel Tower (14 3/9 lbs) Small Metal
Small Metal Klatchian Steel Tower Klatchian Steel Tower

EFF and Effects on Fighting

Quow's research seems to indicate a fixed AP cost for blocking with EFF, which is well-known.

I engaged combat with a number of NPCs that I would not normally be able to attack with my weapons while EFF up (5+ enemies). I had forgotten that I was skillcapped and I had a 0% block rate with the shield. Combat ended up proceeding as I didn't have EFF up, I was not parrying of course, but I was getting about 1.1 attacks/round off, which was about right for the skillcap. This seems to indicate that a shield being "too late" either costs nothing in terms of action points or significantly less.

For someone of sufficient ma.sp.de for TPA, depending on the content you're doing; this would likely be extra justification for using a shield in the 90% - 95% range if you also partially rely on melee skills. Venia (talk) 20:11, 25 October 2021 (EDT)

Blocking Research

Large Bone Shield (Djb Custom - High Quality), ~ 15 lb

Def Levels Raw Bonus Modified Bonus Blocking Swoops Late Swoops Total Swoops Blocking % Date Character
114 - 115 209 209 1356 1387 2743 49.43 26 Jan 2010 Morpheus
116 - 117 210 210 403 363 766 52.61 28 Jan 2010 Morpheus
118 - 119 211 211 391 317 708 55.23 28 Jan 2010 Morpheus
120 - 121 212 212 1513 1419 2932 51.60 28 Jan 2010 Morpheus
122 - 123 213 213 837 745 1582 52.91 30 Jan 2010 Morpheus

Medium Metal Shield, 17 7/9 lb

Def Levels Raw Bonus Modified Bonus Blocking Swoops Late Swoops Total Swoops Blocking % Date Character
200 255 255 2526 1342 2868 65.31 01 Feb 2010 Morpheus
299 296 296 528 42 570 92.63 08 Feb 2010 Aberlon

Large Wooden shield, 20 lb

Def Levels Raw Bonus Modified Bonus Blocking Swoops Late Swoops Total Swoops Blocking % Date Character
200 255 255 829 1266 2095 39.57 01 Feb 2010 Morpheus
210 260 260 974 1179 2153 45.24 01 Feb 2010 Morpheus
212 - 213 261 261 992 1135 2127 46.64 01 Feb 2010 Morpheus
214 262 262 1204 1354 2558 47.07 02 Feb 2010 Morpheus
224 267 267 1132 1083 2215 51.11 02 Feb 2010 Morpheus
226 269 269 1163 1181 2344 49.62 02 Feb 2010 Morpheus
228 270 270 1685 1604 3289 51.23 02 Feb 2010 Morpheus
244 - 245 278 278 1665 1093 2758 60.37 03 Feb 2010 Morpheus
260 - 261 287 287 2681 1164 3545 67.17 04 Feb 2010 Morpheus
298 - 299 296 296 1952 933 2885 67.66 27 Jan 2010 Aberlon
284 299 299 107 29 136 78.68 06 Feb 2010 Morpheus
286 300 300 2427 700 3127 77.61 07 Feb 2010 Morpheus
294 305 305 566 138 706 80.45 07 Feb 2010 Morpheus
300 308 308 2521 472 2993 84.23 07 Feb 2010 Morpheus
308 312 312 1590 255 1845 86.18 13 Feb 2010 Morpheus
316 316 316 1832 256 2088 87.74 13 Feb 2010 Morpheus
352 336 336 7619 509 8128 93.74 23 Feb 2010 Morpheus
372 346 346 9785 344 10129 96.60 04 Mar 2010 Morpheus
382 351 351 33869 1091 34960 96.88 07 Mar 2010 Morpheus

Blocking% vs ma.sp.def bonus for Large Wooden Shield:

Large-wooden-eff.png

An open office spreadsheet and an excel export are available, I'm trying to find an equation for the underlying curve that I believe this graph shows that fits the form 100*(1-e^x) taking based on the shield weight in ninths of a pound (20 * 9 = 180) and the ma.sp.def bonus. If anyone wishes to look at the spreadsheets and play with the values to try and make a curve that matches the observed results, they're welcome to do so.

I'd expect x to be of the form -bonus/weight, possibly with some modifiers to either or both values.

Large Steel Shield (Djb Custom, inferior quality), ~ 22 lb

Def Levels Raw Bonus Modified Bonus Blocking Swoops Late Swoops Total Swoops Blocking % Date Character
316 316 316 1501 602 2103 71.37 13 Feb 2010 Morpheus
324 321 321 3504 1387 4891 71.64 15 Feb 2010 Morpheus
334 326 326 4448 1323 5771 77.08 16 Feb 2010 Morpheus
342 330 330 4995 1334 6329 78.92 23 Feb 2010 Morpheus
352 336 336 5769 1106 6875 83.91 25 Feb 2010 Morpheus
362 341 341 17125 2667 19792 86.52 03 Mar 2010 Morpheus
372 346 346 11070 1430 12500 88.56 07 Mar 2010 Morpheus
382 351 351 4777 522 5299 90.15 08 Mar 2010 Morpheus
392 357 357 4136 316 4452 92.90 10 Mar 2010 Morpheus
400 361 361 47560 3230 50790 93.64 2 Apr 2010 Morpheus

Tsortean Metal Shield, 27 7/9 lb

Def Levels Raw Bonus Modified Bonus Blocking Swoops Late Swoops Total Swoops Blocking % Date Character
592 450 450 4019 184 4203 95.43 27 Jan 2010 Menouthis

Notes

I suggest checking whether the abilities of the attacker have any influence on the blocking rate before gathering too much of this data, otherwise you're going to find it's uncomparable unless everyone fights against the same type of NPC, which wields the same type of weapon, in the same lighting conditions, etc, etc...

--Chat 23:59, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Swoop rate is constant depending only on the skills of the caster. Though I can't provide a link to any specific research on this, it is implied on both Sined and Sekiri's websites and is accepted as fact amongst the wizards :-) Menouthis 00:48, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Empirically I think I have enough experience of the spell to categorically state that blocking is simply a case of bonus vs shield weight. Zexium 01:16, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

The bigger the sample size the more reliable the block %, so ideally we want all the data for a single user / shield / bonus as a single entry. Aggregated Aberlon's large wooden shield data. Zexium 09:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

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