A long-standing bug with the Backstab command was fixed on 28th April 2011. However, this bug had become so ingrained in the game that, for example, many weapons appear to have been designed to work with the bug.
This discussion page is for people to suggest how they think Backstab should work. I know that's not the normal use of a wiki discussion page, but it wasn't being used for anything else.
- Yeah, it's really not what this kind of page is supposed to be for in a wiki. It's supposed to be for discussion of the article. It's also just adding fragmentation to these ideas so that people who may be interested have one more place they have to look. I don't really find 'not being used for anything else' to be a valid reason for polluting the discussion page. Drakkos 13:52, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
- Valid point re use of a talk page, I believe Ilde has addressed and resolved that. Trilogy seems receptive to the idea of a whiteboard that people can brainstorm on, and I think using eg a wiki page for such purpose is probably better than a forum where comments scroll off into oblivion after a few days.
- --Zexium 05:10, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
Please Do Not Edit Other People's Ideas or explain why other people's ideas are wrong! Instead, just add your own thoughts on how backstab should work.
- This also is very much not what a wiki is about.
- I'm not going to delete the page because I maintain no active role in gardening the wiki which is an entirely player driven thing, but I would like to ask the current Wiki admin to carefully consider whether or not this is a hijacking of the wiki philosophy with which they are happy. Drakkos 13:52, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
- Hmmmm, well, I think you're right in that the talk page wasn't really the place for it, but I don't mind there being a page for this, so I have just moved it rather than deleting it. Trilogy (who seems to be working on backstab, from their board posts on the topic?) has said it's a good idea, so it seems like the fragmentation issue isn't a big deal.
- I also don't have a problem with this being essentially treated like a talk page--in other words, responding to but not actually editing other people's words--since this is more of a discussion/opinion thing.
- Although, I am going to make one exception to that and delete that "Sheriff Lobo" thing, since it's completely irrelevant to the topic.
- --Ilde 00:42, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
- My intention was that this should be a brainstorming type exercise. Think of it as being akin to a whiteboard in a meeting where everyone throws ideas up on it. I think it's ultimately better that anyone looking at this page with a view to implementing something should see everyone's ideas, which is more like how a talk page works, rather than just the last editor's viewpoint, which is what you get in a traditional wiki article.
- Wiki based brainstorming might be something that hasn't been done before (although I'm sure it must have been somewhere, really, I can't be the first person to think of using a wiki page as a brainstorming whiteboard can I .... where do I patent this? (just joking guys)), that doesn't mean it's a bad idea! Perhaps wiki needs be a "brainstorming" namespace?
- --Zexium 05:10, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
Maybe some of these comments should be moved into the discussion page for the ideas page? --Zexium 05:10, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
I think backstab should only work for weapons with a pierce damage component, the command is back_STAB_ after all.
A pure pierce weapon is probably easier to backstab with compared to a mixed damage type weapon.
A heavier / longer / wider weapon is probably harder to wield covertly, but probably does more damage.
Lighter weapons can probably be manipulated faster (number of hits per weapon) than heavier weapons.
I'd suggest that the lightest fastest daggers might be capable of as many as 4 or even 5 stabs in a combat heartbeat when wielded skillfully in the prime hand. I'd think that the number of actions in a single heartbeat would be a reasonable limiting factor.
Prime hand may be faster than off hand, so you might with identical weapons in each hand get an extra hit in with your prime hand. Hits with the prime hand might also be better placed and do more damage.
Lots of fast jabbing hits taking advantage of the element of surprise, the element of surprise meaning that your target doesn't make any defensive moves during the attack. However, these are not the prepared blows of a normal special attack, and might well individually be slightly less damaging than a normal base round, the strength of the attack will be the number of attacks combined with the surprise.
So, possibly as many as 9 rapid stabs (5 prime hand, 4 off hand) doing perhaps the equivalent damage of 7 or 8 base round attacks.
"Shock and Awe" effect is probably down to the surprise of the attack, so a feature of the co.it.weap and co.stealth.* skills.
Damage caused is down to the ability to plunge the weapon into the target, so a feature of the weapon skill and the weapon itself.
"Mug" might be an alternative for blunt weapons, although this take on "mug" might not be what the thieves would expect mug to be.
More of an aesthetic thing than anything else, I always found it odd that pretty much every single member of every single guild backstabbed in exactly the same way.
It would be nice to have more variety to the backstab, maybe having different "styles" that you could set/learn from different sources. Depending on the style used it could give a different "effect" as to how the backstab is performed (or failed). Purely cosmetic, it would add some variety. A few examples:
A "clumsy" backstab in which the attacker feigns tripping over, using the opportunity to stab their victim several times (inspired by Lao Tze and those other seemingly harmless types who can inflict serious damage without ever giving the impression of actually attacking) A violent style, focusing on pure brutality over finesse (with appropriate setup/attack messages) A professional style, with each hit being carefully placed etc.